By the Record or " With Our Own Twist"?

[Fuzzbass]

I play mainly for country artists locally. It's a mix of originals and covers. No one plays the covers by the record. I do not waste my time learning a bassline note for note if the guitarist plays his own solos and the band plays a song with an extra 5 here and no walk up to the 4 etc... I was really just wondering if this is normal or if others experience this on the regular. To me as long as I can have a solid practice or two with the rest of the band and the bass and drums are together and all chords are correct I have no problem not playing 100% to the record, but I was wondering what others thought. Thanks in advance.

First thing first: I totally agree with you. There's no reason to learn a bass line note-for-note as long as you get the gist of it: same style, groove, etc. The arrangement is far more important, including accents, stops, etc. Being tight as a band is the key. Obviously, if the song has a signature bass riff (perhaps doubling other instruments) or bass melody then do learn it. Aside from those exceptions, "close enough" is perfectly fine.

Second thing second: I LOVE playing "with our own twist". Perfect example: a band I was in did "Honky Tonk Woman" with a New Orleans funk groove. Once the drummer got the hang of it, it was a blast. This band played a number of well-worn covers their own way, which was WAY more fun than Same Old, Same Old (however see caveats below).

Third: let's say you're in a situation where everyone's gigging a song without prior rehearsal (I love bands that know how to do homework), and let's say the drummer doesn't have the right groove: either he didn't listen well enough, or maybe just found the wrong version on YouTube. If you can't get him to adjust to you, then you (and the rest of the band) will have to adjust to him. After the gig everyone will have to figure out how to get on the same page -- but who knows, if you all like what the drummer did then you can keep playing the song that way.



OBVIOUSLY, it should go without saying that I do not approve of "half-assing" a song: playing it incorrectly out of laziness or lack of skill. I'm just sayin' it's completely wrong to insist that anything other than an exact copy is "half-assing". I know, some bands will half-ass and then try to claim they are "doing it our way", but let's leave amateurs and hacks out of the discussion. I'll take "with a twist" over an exact copy every time when I'm in a group of talented and creative musicians.

P.S. I once worked with a BL who insisted on exact covers because "that's why those songs sold millions of copies". That band turned out to be a buzzkill because the BL was a control freak -- no shocker there. Besides, he was wrong: a great song will remain great regardless of style and arrangement. Giving benefit of the doubt, maybe the BL had been in too many situations with lazy bandmates. Even so, that didn't justify totalitarian inflexibility.

 

[Ayce]

Something else came to mind from previous arguments/discussions. To many, music is art. Using that analogy, if I was in a band that played nfn, could that not be considered forgery? (unless proper royalties were paid) If I were to create a stroke for stroke copy of the Mona Lisa, even if I didn't sign it, and tried to sell it, that could be considered a forgery, or at least a good copy. Painters recreate paintings this way to learn from the masters, not to make a buck. If I were to paint it "In the style of" LdV, it would be considered a cheap knock off. (See Ronco/KTel and the like.) If I were to paint it in my own style, and sell it as such, someone might complain about royalties, but legally, it isn't a forgery, just a (hopefully) good copy with modern paints, canvases and techniques. On the other hand, there are some pretty crappy copies of songs being played by sub par players "in their own style" that make a few bucks here and there. Thankfully, they learn how to play better, or give up.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

BINGO!!!

This> There's no reason to learn a bass line note-for-note as long as you get the gist of it: same style, groove, etc. The arrangement is far more important, including accents, stops, etc. Being tight as a band is the key. Obviously, if the song has a signature bass riff (perhaps doubling other instruments) or bass melody then do learn it. Aside from those exceptions, "close enough" is perfectly fine.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

This is also a great point!

To many, music is art. Using that analogy, if I was in a band that played nfn, could that not be considered forgery? (unless proper royalties were paid) If I were to create a stroke for stroke copy of the Mona Lisa, even if I didn't sign it, and tried to sell it, that could be considered a forgery, or at least a good copy.

 

[Colin Cunliffe]

FWIW, my twopence worth

Cover band = sounds like, close but no coconut

Tribute band = a real die hard fan would have a smile on their face

I dont think that a cover band that doesnt play 110% of the 'real thing' is being lazy, I quote Pink Floyd and Scissor sisters "comfortably numb".

I think its an arrangement, my version.

 

[Slater]

To many, music is art. Using that analogy, if I was in a band that played nfn, could that not be considered forgery?

I get the point you're trying to make, but that analogy doesn't hold up.

Even if cover bands play NFN, they're not representing themselves as the original artists or a copy of the original artists, with the exception being tribute bands which have self evident intentions. Also, venues are supposed to pay ASCAP license fees, so there is some sort of mechanism in place (effective or not) to compensate the owners of music.

 

[StringThing]

Does it have to be said?
Learn the song.

Then see what you where you and you're musicians can take it.

Bottom line. Period. End of statement.

Obstacles can be personal:
Insecurity and or lack of talent, ability, motivation. If Jerry was a racer driver popped up in the set (yeah right) I would feel this way on some of those fronts, but I'd try my best to learn it.

And to be fair, add in time, resources, playing health.

It only take ONE member without this attitude to make other's feel they waste thier time doing what's right.

Know what your doing, there are multiple individuals that need to be on the same page if you want best results:
Rehearsal is Rehearsal, Come with your parts worked out and practiced. It's OUR time not just YOURS
Practice is Practice, do this on your own or hook up with another member and spent the time. YOUR TIME.
Jamming is Jamming. That's a whole other thing.

Also have reasonable expectations.
How many songs and in what order at what time?
Provide those learning any adaptations before rehearsal, i.e. key change or "we do it Reggae LOL"
If 1 person dominates the setlist choice, don't expect everyone to hail to thee, expect the exact opposite.

My thoughts.

 

[zontar]

Since most bands don't play their own songs "by the Record" why should I feel any need to do so?
Even if I do it note for note it still comes off sounding like me--and that's okay by me.

 

[Humbled]

Bob Ross wants your realism alla prima.

 

[DWBass]

A bassist who plays with a bunch of pickup bands will need to have at least 3-4 times that amount of music committed to memory, and be able to play in multiple keys. Note for note is not reasonable under those circumstances IMHO, because there is just too much material to memorize and maintain.

I must be an exception. I play in 2 bands and am subs in 2 others. I have every song committed to memory damn near note for note. I play in a band with ALL musically educated musicians. Some are teachers and others play for the military. I'm the only one in the band who's not reading music. I have everything memorized.

When I get the setlist for each band, I make sure I have the song keys noted since they play some of the same songs but in different keys.

 

[dspellman]

I have always believed there is a big difference between choosing to play something different from the original recording, and not being able to play it like the original recording…or not willing to put in the effort.

I'm there with you.

Even the original band will often play a version NOT like the original recording, but I'll emphasize learning the original, bang on, first. If there's a deviation from the original after that, it will be a choice.

 

[Wasnex]

I'm there with you.

Even the original band will often play a version NOT like the original recording, but I'll emphasize learning the original, bang on, first. If there's a deviation from the original after that, it will be a choice.

IMHO learning note for note is really important when you are learning to play. This is how you learn the subtleties of different styles.

After you have been playing for a long time and developed advanced skills, you have the styles of most songs internalized, so learning everything note for note is not as important, because you pretty much already know the style.

At some point you develop the ability to copy the original style of a recording while simultaneously making the bass line your own. The audience appreciates your attention to the groove and the bass players in the audience note the little nuances you add to have a little fun.

If you are copying a recording, my view is the feel has to be there, and anything that really stands out as unique has to be there. So some lines should be played exactly like the recording, but many bass lines do not need to be exact as long as the groove is where it should be.

In my experience, many bands do a pretty fair job of capturing the essence of the original recording, even if they don't nail everything note for note; then the vocalist opens his/her mouth and sounds absolutely nothing like the original recording. Tone, phrasing, inflection....all way off!

Most vocalists have one way of singing and lack the range, talent, and technique to adapt to different styles. So expecting them to accurately cover a variety of vocalists is totally unreasonable. If the vocalist can't nail the part, it really doesn't matter if the bass line varies a little bit.

When I am learning from recordings, I do typically learn note for note. But after I have memorized the form, I don't really worry about it too much. In going back and listening to songs that I used to sing backup and play bass on, it's obvious that my parts shifted some over time, and no one ever complained.

 

[Ayce]

At one gig, our guitarist/lead vocals decided to throw the Who's "Squeeze Box" in. I'd only heard it a few times on the radio years ago, so I played what I thought Entwistle might have played. While not dead on, it was close enough the audience didn't notice.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Intros really need to be played as recorded. People won't recognise the song if you don't.

Adding an extended ending, or cutting out dead sections of songs are fine with me.

If the feel isn't right and the band sounds sloppy, why are you even playing that song??

 

[Ayce]

I've seen (and heard) bands that play note for note (or try to) and sound terrible, because the chemistry just isn't there.

 

[Groove Doctor]

then the vocalist opens his/her mouth and sounds absolutely nothing like the original recording. Tone, phrasing, inflection....all way off!

Most vocalists have one way of singing and lack the range, talent, and technique to adapt to different styles. So expecting them to accurately cover a variety of vocalists is totally unreasonable.

Yep. Gotta choose songs that suit the vocalist.

I'm singing "You Never Can Tell (C'est la vie)" by Chuck Berry. Spoken style vocals suits my voice much more than the lead singers voice. He adds a bunch of high harmonies, and the band adds extra solos to make this 2min song go longer to keep the dance floor pumping.

 

[dspellman]

Many famous musicians/bands don't even play their own stuff live remotely close to the original recording, so who cares if it's not EXACTLY like the way it was originally done.

Interesting discussion. I grew up on classical music (pipe organ with both feet playing heel and toe on bass pedals, piano, etc.). You played the sheet music. I played arrangements with big bands and small combos. You played the sheet music. I recorded. You played the sheet music. Tommy Tedesco famously played an extraordinarly odd bit one day in the studio. He was sight reading the sheet music (as we all did)...which was upside down. If you play in an orchestra, you played the sheet music. Accurately.

I don't have perfect pitch, but I can usually tell what's being played on a recording by things like chord progression, scales, etc. I once played a transcription of a Dave Brubeck recording and had to stop midway through one song, and I was absolutely sure the transcription was wrong. I eventually caught up with Brubeck at the Hollywood Bowl and asked him about that passage. He unfurled his absolutely alien-size hands and put them next to mine (which are already XXL). I physically couldn't play those notes, but he could.

While I play jazz improvisation, rock guitar, etc., and have watched Supremes songs changed drastically through the filter of The Vanilla Fudge, I still remember standing next to a friend at a concert when she exclaimed excitedly, "They sound exactly like their record!" It was a thing (and sort of a badge of honor) because a lot of bands got out on the road and, it turns out, couldn't mimic the studio musicians who'd actually done their record closely enough.

Since then, when working with cover bands, I've tried to learn the original on the money. I don't mind new versions and "personal interpretations" and all that. It's just noticeable when the half fast musicians take it on.

 

[DWBass]

I've seen (and heard) bands that play note for note (or try to) and sound terrible, because the chemistry just isn't there.

Those bands basically just sucked. Honestly, no one is really playing note for note 100% of the time. But my band mostly everyone is reading sheet music (except me). We're a damn good band doing it whatever way we can.

 

[Ayce]

Agreed. Otoh, I've seen, heard and been in bands with great chemistry that don't play nfn, and had people on the floor right from the first note of the first song, to the fading notes at the end of the gig.

 

[Wasnex]

Interesting discussion. I grew up on classical music (pipe organ with both feet playing heel and toe on bass pedals, piano, etc.). You played the sheet music. I played arrangements with big bands and small combos. You played the sheet music. I recorded. You played the sheet music. Tommy Tedesco famously played an extraordinarly odd bit one day in the studio. He was sight reading the sheet music (as we all did)...which was upside down. If you play in an orchestra, you played the sheet music. Accurately.

I don't have perfect pitch, but I can usually tell what's being played on a recording by things like chord progression, scales, etc. I once played a transcription of a Dave Brubeck recording and had to stop midway through one song, and I was absolutely sure the transcription was wrong. I eventually caught up with Brubeck at the Hollywood Bowl and asked him about that passage. He unfurled his absolutely alien-size hands and put them next to mine (which are already XXL). I physically couldn't play those notes, but he could.

While I play jazz improvisation, rock guitar, etc., and have watched Supremes songs changed drastically through the filter of The Vanilla Fudge, I still remember standing next to a friend at a concert when she exclaimed excitedly, "They sound exactly like their record!" It was a thing (and sort of a badge of honor) because a lot of bands got out on the road and, it turns out, couldn't mimic the studio musicians who'd actually done their record closely enough.

Since then, when working with cover bands, I've tried to learn the original on the money. I don't mind new versions and "personal interpretations" and all that. It's just noticeable when the half fast musicians take it on.

Obviously when when everyone is reading sheet music, it's note for note.

Most of the bands I have played in did a mix of note for note and interpretation. When you're playing a current top 10 hit, the audience probably wants to hear it pretty close the original. If you're playing Mustang Sally, people typically don't care how you play it, as long as it's danceable (IMHO).