How would you describe the sound of an avatar compared to an Epifinal UL 410 or a Bergantino 410 or even an Aguilar GS410?
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Cab Combination Question
- Thread starter MycooLeeyun
- Start date
I can describe some of these manufacturers 210 cabs to a Avatar 210. But this is JUST my opinion...Hope this might help some...
When I was additioning 210 cabinets for my vertical 410 rig I was able to try a bunch of 210 cabinets.
"To my ears"...my top two picks turned out to be...
#1...Bergantino's AE210.
#2...Avatar's Neo 210.
The Berg is a GREAT cab. It had the better/smoother highs over the Avatar.
When playing alone the Avatar's horn can be hissy but the hiss disappears on stage. The Berg's superior highs was great when playing alone, but when I got the Berg on stage with the loud, 6 pcs., country/rock group I work with, the better highs disappeared and pretty much became equal to the Avatar's high end. Low end, IMHO was equal between the two as was projection and stage dispersion.
At that time the Berg AE210 was $850.00 plus tax per cabinet.
The Avatar Neo 210 was $319.00 plus shipping per cabinet.
Only "your" ears can tell you if one cabinet is $531.00 better than the other. Try to find other manufacturers 410 cabinets and A/B your Avatar 410 to them, preferably in a band setting.
Things that sound great in the music store can change greatly in a live band.
When I considered the sound, the quality componets, and good cabinet build the inexpensive price of the Avatar's made the choice for me.
I replaced high-dollar, hard to transport, Ed*n cabinets with these two Avatar cabinets and haven't regretted it for a second!
("stuff you guys say")
Nope...
Truth, is the truth...
Facts, are facts...
If your ears say that Avatar's front shelf ported, extended x-max, Eminence loaded cabinets aren't your sound...it's all still good...certain models of Ed*n and certain models of Amp*g, some of Peav*y's, M*rkBass's, Galli*n-Krueg*r's ect., ect., cabinets don't float my boat.
("stuff you guys say")
Nope...
Truth, is the truth...
Facts, are facts...
If your ears say that Avatar's front shelf ported, extended x-max, Eminence loaded cabinets aren't your sound...it's all still good...certain models of Ed*n and certain models of Amp*g, some Peav*y's, M*rkBass's, Galli*on's ect., ect., cabinets don't float my boat.
Dude, you sound just like the guys that compare their SX basses to Fenders... Honestly, do you really think that Avatar cabs sound as good as those by Berg, Mesa, etc...???
- georgestrings
As far as the components/cabinet build ect., ect., don't take my word for it.
Go to the various brand-name manufacturers web-sites. Most will give the build specs in detail as Avatar does.
You'll find what BillF and I say to be true.
As to sound compairsons...it's subjective to each players sound goals.
But, in my case...Yes! I do find Avatar's 210 Neo cabinet to be as good as, and better than most of the other brand-name manufacturers 210 cabinets.
When I was putting together my 210 vertical 410 I was able to locate and audition 14 different models of 210 cabinets.
To my ears the Avatar Neo 210 sounded as good as, or in most cases, better than other 210 cabinets costing twice or more as much.
As I posted earlier, I though the Berg AE210 was a great sounding cabinet.
I just didn't feel it was $531.00 better than the Avatar.
Fair enough - *to me*, despite inventory lists, Avatar cabs just don't sound sound *as good* to me as the other brands I named - but if they work for other people, there's certainly nothing wrong with that... Logically speaking, though - *if* Avatar was *as good*, one would think their business would be exploding, and the others declining - given the extreme price differences between them...
I would wager that simply changing amps isn't going to get the OP where he wants to go, but time will tell on that...
Anyways, enjoy your Avatar cabs - and far be it from me to tell anyone else what sounds good *to them*...
- georgestrings
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
A colleague of mine at AudioXPress magazine related an experience as a repairman. He worked for the #1 retailer of high end audio in Boston in the 70s, his specialty was aligning FM tuner front ends. Said store, I'll call it 'ABC Audio', charged $150, and no one complained about the price. He started his own shop, did the same job, but only charged $75. His first few customers typically said "Nice job, but not as good as when ABC Audio did it last", not knowing he was the person who'd previously done it for him.Since when did consumer preference have anything to do with logic?
He raised his price to $125, and then the typical customer response became "Nice! Just as good as ABC Audio, and it cost $25 less!".
After exchanging thoughts here the other day with Will (he seems like a nice person - thank you Will) I did some experimenting and I think you should follow Will’s advise.
Since when did consumer preference have anything to do with logic?
Well, a few "truths" and "facts" that Bill and shoot-r left out are that although Eminence makes drivers for most major cab manufacturers, they also typically make those drivers to the specs and design parameters those companies give them - most of which are also kept confidential... So, it isn't actually true that Avatar uses the same exact drivers as Bergantino, Mesa, Ampeg, SWR, Eden, etc...
Also, those companies tend to have better constructed cabs, and tend to use higher quality parts throughout: crossovers and horns, for instance... If you've ever looked inside of a Mesa cab, you'd see what I'm talking about in regards to "better construction"...
Avatar cabs are fine for what they are, but to put them in the same league as the other manufacturers I mentioned really IS like comparing an SX to a Fender...
- georgestrings
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
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The Avatars are OK, but in my view are handicapped by a few things. They're not well braced, the 'crossover' aspect tend to be off the shelf and often not spec'ed to be too hearty, and the boxes are a generic size/shape and not necessarily designed for the speakers used. These to me end up adding up to something that was OK but not as good as some other cabs I've had or used. I do have a 112SB that I keep in the house as an emergency practice cab that has done duty for years as an end table in the music room. I tried, but it never was an inspirational cab to me. Sounded boxy.
Good value for the money, but can't really compare to some of the commercial offerings out there.
Good value for the money, but can't really compare to some of the commercial offerings out there.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
While it's true that not every OEM driver is the same the fact of the matter is that the variation is specs between all the options possible from a single frame/motor is on the order of plus/minus 20% at best, at that's at the extreme end of the scale. Plus/minus 10% is more the norm. And there's always a robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario involved, whatever you gain in one area by changing one spec will be given away in a different area with another spec, or two or three, that's also changed in the process. So while many cab manufacturers would lead you to believe that they have super-duper special drivers that no one else can even come close to, let alone duplicate, it just ain't so.
I have, and while impressive, it's a long way from perfect; their bracing scheme, for one thing, is heavier and less effective than other much lighter options. And it's flawed from an engineering standpoint, putting most of the added stiffness in the cab corners, where it does the least amount of good. True that Avatar is weak in the bracing department, but one could brace an Avatar to get a better result than the Mesa scheme with a quarter the weight and at a cost of less than $20. And Avatar is hardly the worst offender where bracing is concerned, the complete lack of which can be seen in other cabs at far higher price points.
Have you looked inside any of their bigger cabs??? The reason I ask is, what I've seen inside the PH610, PH810, and PH215 directly contradicts the above...
To be honest, your bit about speaker differences comes off like a spin job...
- georgestrings
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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I can't say what I saw the inside of, it was a pic posted here awhile ago. Odd that Mesa doesn't have pics on their site, though.
So, your statement on Mesa's bracing was based on one pic you saw here "awhile ago", and you don't even know which cab it was - I see...
I don't see it as "odd" that Mesa doesn't have pics on their site of the insides of their cabs - do others have them??? - and why would they???(btw, I don't know if they do, or not)
- georgestrings
I have to say I don't know how it is nowdays. But before SWR was bought by Fender they would use PAS,Eminence or Celestion. Just to be able to keep production going. I know right before Fender bought them they went thru a 6 week period where they couldn't get enough speakers from anyone.
Well thanks, I appreciate it, try to help where I can. That said, whatever bit I do know about this acoustics/speaker stuff I learned from reading and following links posted by others on this site and in this thread who actually are professionals so you can defer some credit their way.
A little education goes a long way. Doing things that acoustically make sense, or at least make the best of what you have, has saved me a whole lot of headaches....and money.....and has resulted in myself and whatever bands I'm in sounding better/more professional so yes, the science really does work.
Mike Bendinelli is Mesa Boogie's Chief Technician and Mesa Boogie is in Petaluma, CA - theyre about 20 miles south of where I live, and there are no inside cabinet pictures, only outside pictures on Mesas webpage (which is common) but they are built like a tank.
