Cab Shuffle: Moving to a 115

[bass40hz]

I run dual rigs, each with a GK MB Fusion 800 pushing a MarkBass 210 and 115...running separate rigs or concurrent it never leaves my wanting. IMHO the 210 + 115 rig is perfection. YYMV, and it will as there are numerous discussions on not mixing drivers and whether its science, math or folklore, doesn't matter to me...it just works perfectly for me.

 

[imdkoz]

Your TC RH450 will do 3 RS cabs in any combination. I have used 3 RS212 cabs for a show and it was great. They have a single 15 cab as well so you could pair it with your 210 and be done.

 

[cdlynch]

Another user story FWIW, all Ampeg cabs:

I could never get the snap, bite, and grind I wanted from my 410, and after using a friend's 1x15 alone at a gig I sold the 410 for a 1x15 and never looked back. The clarity was effortless, and it goes PLENTY deep. Before deciding anything, try your heads through a variety of 15" cabs, alone or in pairs, and see if the 2x10 is really giving you what you expected. Whatever you do, try before you buy, and try things you hadn't considered -- lots of happy 12" users out there.

Mixing 4 and 8 ohm cabs gives me the willies as a tube guy, but I think some SS heads might be OK with it... If it was me, I'd feel much better about two 8 ohm cabs. Happy hunting!

 

[BadExample]

Best bet is the Carvin MBE 15. If you call in they can probably swap in a 4 ohm driver for $10 or $20.

IIRC you BX700 has a 2 ohm switch. That would need to be enabled to safely run a 4 ohm with an 8 ohm or two 4 ohm cabs. You'll loose a tiny bit of available power with a 4 + 8 ohm, proably negligable. Current BR10.2 and the mb 15 are both rated 400 watts rms.

Cabs are not resistors. The power split will be dependant on both frequency and the Z curve of the cab. You'll be in the safe zone with either an 8 or 4 ohm 15 rated 400 WRMS as long as you don't dime the master or the eq (especially at low frequencies where impedance may drop 25% under the rated nominal "ohms" and excursion can be excessive).

If you get another brand or Carvin says the MB series is not a good match, the phase curves may or may not contribute to a nice tone. So if that's what you plan, it would be best to try before you buy as was already mentioned, or get something that can be economically returned.

I think Carvin gives you 10 days now, but you pay shipping. So up to you if you trust their recommendations. I would in this case.

 

[jsolberg]

I'm an old school 15" guy as well. My current rig is a pair of Ashdown ABM 115's that are light, efficient, and scaleable. The only 10's I've used were an old Traynor 8x10 I had back in the 70's and occasionally playing a supplied backline SVT 8x10. Neither of those would I care to lug around, though the SVT of course sounds just fine!

 

[CL400Peavey]

Agreed. But there are only so many disclaimers and exceptions you can include before a given posting ends up saying nothing at all. There will always be exceptions to almost everything if you look hard enough. But I also think that, as a general rule, what I said still holds in the majority of cases.

You dont have to look hard though. GK Neo 115 is mid centered and bright. Neo 410 is way deeper tonally. Neither is vintage sounding. Same with the Ampeg SVT 115 and the SVT 410hlf. Where as the SVT410he is vintage sounding. Those are two of the biggest manufacturers, and are widely distributed everywhere.

Politely disagree although I welcome your examples of such 10" loaded cabs since I'm always willing to learn about something new when it comes to bass gear. And again, I'm sure exceptions can be found if you cast your nets wide enough. But life is short. And I'd rather find a workable solution I like the sound of rather than spend huge amounts of time trying every single cab out there. Or hunting down the latest "next thing" bit of gear. If I have time to spend I'd rather spend it playing than shopping.

Note: Evaluating potential gear purchases by actual trial rather than purely on its published specs should be fairly obvious to anyone who has spent a little time on TB by now. However, it's probably still worth repeating - just in case.

Take a look at the ampeg 810e, one of the most widely available bass cabs on the market. It is "vintage" sounding. Those drivers are not super capable on their own, but work when you have a pile of them. JBL, EV, Peavey, Eminance, and Faital Pro all have examples of 15's that have amazing mid content and clarity. These are not all modern drivers either.

Politely, but adamantly, you're experience on this might benefit from branching out, as there are a lot of great sounding cabs, with all sorts of different driver sizes in them.

Your TC RH450 will do 3 RS cabs in any combination. I have used 3 RS212 cabs for a show and it was great. They have a single 15 cab as well so you could pair it with your 210 and be done.

I would be really careful here. TC says that their amps will work with three of their cabs, but they are only nominally 8 Ohm cabs. They may measure a little higher in all actuality.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

I had a b2 ampeg combo with a 15 and hartke 210 for years and it sounded pretty good and could handle a good size bar. Once i started playing in a metal band, i needed more and switched to a classic ampeg 810 setup.

 

[Wissen]

Appreciate all of the discussion and feedback. Just goes to show that if you want an answer you can't be afraid to ask the question.

@CL400Peavey , your advice is a point well taken. I should go out and try a bunch of stuff. Unfortunately my area isn't exactly overflowing with music store options. Even the local GC has a smaller bass gear inventory than my own office does right now. I don't know how it started, but I am an obsessive bargain hunter who prefers to get everything second-hand. My TC head and a tenor banjo I just purchased abroad are my only pieces of brand new equipment, and both were special circumstances.

As such, I do rely on collective wisdom because I am not actually that picky about my sound, and I am likely going to make my purchasing decision based on the TB and CL market at the time of purchase. I do my research and get my ducks in a row, and then strike when the iron is hot and take satisfaction in the deal as much as the sound of the equipment.

Pursuant of both of our aims, I think some sort of real-world cab comparison posts would be well received by the community. Any "amp showdown!" content I have ever come across is written by a journalist who spent 10 minutes with the gear and is likely getting a kickback from the rig that curiously ends up taking 1st place. Getting real players' insight on the gear that we actually use would be pretty awesome. Without having to spend eight hours curating the content from TB threads on your own. Not that we don't all like to kill a workday on TB, but...

 

[Wissen]

as long as you don't dime the master or the eq

Most of what you said was Greek to me.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

8 + 8 = 4...simple right?

And 8 + 4 = 2.6

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Bass player walks into a store and hooks up to a new cab and is amazed by the tone. Best he's ever heard. Gets super loud, great at low levels as well. Everything he's been looking for and more.
Asks the salesman "What's inside?".
Salesman replies "Dual 8's".
Bass player leaves.

 

[40Hz]

Politely, but adamantly, you're experience on this might benefit from branching out, as there are a lot of great sounding cabs, with all sorts of different driver sizes in them.

I'm not quite sure where you're getting that from, but I'll happily try out every piece of equipment I can lay my hands on. I have no strong opinions about any piece of music equipment going in. Just very strong opinions after I've tried or listened to it. And I've tried plenty of different things over the years.

However, based purely on my own ears and experiences, the 810e is not at all what I consider a "vintage" sounding cab. Although being somewhat "vintage" myself, my definition of that may differ from yours.

"De gustibus non est disputandum." as that wise old Roman said. There's plenty of room for variety in this s world. Especially when it comes to bass gear.

 

[mcnach]

So what I am hearing is that my best bet is to find a 115 with the same impedance as the 210 I would keep, and the combined impedance doesn't go lower than what my amp can handle.

My Carvin can operate at 4 or 2. So swapping one of my 4-ohm 210 cabs out for a 4-ohm 115 will get me where I want to be?



Sure, I don't doubt that there are 10" drivers out there that would do what I'm looking to do. But I don't have the resources to cycle through 10 cabs just to find the perfect fit.

Also, it's not about frequency response when I say "depth". Maybe I mean "fat", or "round", or "warm", but I have never found it in a 10" setup.

but similarly, not all 15" cabs will sound the same... so it's still a lottery.

I'd say try all teh cabs you can until you find the one you like. If you liked the Fender Rumble, why not try their cabs?

 

[BadExample]

Most of what you said was Greek to me.

But I barely speak my own language, English

OK, summary in layman's terms is in order. I'm not saying your a dummy. My only goal is to help you decide from what I know (or think) to be true.

Matching up the ohms is not critical, not harmful to your BX or the cabs, as long as the cabs would be able to handle the power if used individually, and you don't go nuts cranking it up.

You will get a little more power in watts if you run two 4 ohm cabs compared to one 4 and one 8 ohm cabs. Set the switch to 2 ohms for either.

Running a 4 ohm cab and an 8 ohm cab will result in the 4 ohm cab getting more power than the 8 ohm cab, but it will not be the ratio of 4:8 when actually playing music, i.e. your bass.

If you are looking for other than a Carvin 15, it would be good to get something that you can return, because it might not get you what you expect. I think the Carvin is more likely. If Carvin will sell you one rated at 4 ohms or you can find a used BR 15, I think that's your best bet.

My opinion on amp vs. cab power ratings, in this case, it would be best to get a 15" cab that can handle at least as much as the 2 x 10's you have now; 400 Watts RMS (aka continuous).

With the cabs you have now, or whatever you may move onto, use caution cranking up the bass knob, parametric eq with the frequency turned low, or the leftmost bands on the graphic eq, as well as the master.

I hope this is a bit more clear. Please let me know if any of it's confusing. I took quite a few medical and science classes, and I don't even come close to understanding that terminology! Latin is Greek on steroids!

You should also know the BX700 puts out 550 Watts if using a single 4 ohm cab, so you want to be double cautious if you use a single cab sometimes.

 

[TAZ]

My suggestion is get a pedal with a EQ (Sansamp, etc...) to help shape and boost/cut until you dial in "your tone" with your current gear. If/when you hit limitations, you have an idea where to go. Getting a 15 or whatever isn't any solution until you play through and experience it first hand to know that this 15 or whatever is the right one for your purposes.

 

[Wissen]

If you liked the Fender Rumble, why not try their cabs?

I am not dismissing anything. I was just soliciting advice so I understood the science behind the factors at play in the decision itself. To understand what was already off the table based on what I already have, and what specs I should be looking for.

I truly appreciate the specific, actionable advice that has been posted in this thread. Someone mentioned earlier the trap of the "so broad it is essentially useless" advice, which unfortunately happens all to often here at TB. Sometimes we are so afraid of the internet argument that we try not to have an opinion at all.

 

[Wissen]

OK, summary in layman's terms is in order. I'm not saying your a dummy. My only goal is to help you decide from what I know (or think) to be true.

No worries, layman's terms are exactly what I need. We all have our areas of expertise, and this happens to very much not be one of mine.

I won't be playing anything crazy, so I won't be cranking any volume or bass EQ knobs. I am never in a situation where my rig has to fill a large room. I'm just looking for a little something different in situations where it does have to provide more than stage volumes.

The BR115 will likely be my target. But I will keep my eye out for any other deals on a 4Ohm cab.

 

[BadExample]

IMO, BR115, or MB 15 new and returnable, or maybe best, sell both 210's and buy a 210 + 15 Rumbles. You could always get a 15 Rumble then get it 210 later if the tone is not there adding the Rumble 15 to a Carvin 210.

 

[mcnach]

I am not dismissing anything. I was just soliciting advice so I understood the science behind the factors at play in the decision itself. To understand what was already off the table based on what I already have, and what specs I should be looking for.

I truly appreciate the specific, actionable advice that has been posted in this thread. Someone mentioned earlier the trap of the "so broad it is essentially useless" advice, which unfortunately happens all to often here at TB. Sometimes we are so afraid of the internet argument that we try not to have an opinion at all.

By the way, I wasn't asking you that question in a 'lecturing' manner or something. It was a sincere suggestion... if I tried something and thought it sounded great, I would probably think of getting exactly one of those, especially if I cannot easily test many alternatives.

The Rumble cabs are pretty nicely priced, and they seem to get pretty good comments. I only have direct experience of one Rumble combo with a 15" speaker (I'm not sure how many there are)... it was provided as backline at one small bar and it saved me bringing my stuff for a short 45' gig in a very crowded place with awkward access... so I said fine, I'll use whatever, expecting to be not very pleased. But the Rumble combo worked very nicely. It wasn't the best sound ever, but I enjoyed it and I would have no problem using one of them again.

 

[kartiste]

Why don't you just use both your existing heads, one driving your 210 and a line out to the power section in of the other to drive the 115? Or vice versa. Twiddle the gains to get the desired balance. No impedance matching problems. Done.