Cab Sim vs Broughton HPF/LPF for going direct

[Texican]

I’m finding that more and more of my gigs are requiring me to go straight to the board, and sometimes include in ears monitors. I’m also finding that I HATE the way my bass feels and sounds without an amp.

I currently own a Tone Hammer Di and a Dr. J Sparrow (BDDI clone). I’d love to get a REDDI but can’t afford it at the moment. So I’m curious if something like the Broughton HPF/LPF or the OmniCabSim Mini would help my direct signal feel and sound more “amp-ish”, and also which you’d recommend and why.

Am I barking up the wrong tree as far as what I need?

 

[JimmyM]

No you are not, although I kind of thought the Tone Hammer and BDDI had speaker simulation built in. Am I wrong? Anyway, can't speak on the OmniCabSim but I've used the H and LPF's to cut lows and highs to simulate the response of an SVT 810 or B-15 cab.

 

[Texican]

No you are not, although I kind of thought the Tone Hammer and BDDI had speaker simulation built in. Am I wrong? Anyway, can't speak on the OmniCabSim but I've used the H and LPF's to cut lows and highs to simulate the response of an SVT 810 or B-15 cab.

I haven’t used the sparrow without an amp except for one time at a rehearsal… I remember my complaint being more that the mids were scooped and the signature BDDI baked in sound isn’t exactly my thing. At least not for every application. So it’s possible that the EQ is tweaked in such a way as to act as built in cabinet emulation. I’m not sure though.

The tone hammer, on the other hand, has a much more transparent tone. 99% of my experience running without an amp has been with the tone hammer. I’ve never been allowed a suitable amount of time to really dial in the sound, especially in the context of a live mix, nevertheless I’ve never been fully satisfied. When I used in ear monitors, I had to roll the tone knob on my P bass all the way off because the cold sterile treble... And that was with pressurewounds soaked in Eucerin.

 

[hbabels]

The Omni Cab Sim is a great choice for running direct / IEMs. Definitely adds that “amp like “ Tone and feel

The HP/ LP would get you in the ball park as well. Most cabs have more than just that though there’s resonant peaks and the shape of the mid curve which the Omni Cab would help you dial in a bit more.

Another great option for direct amp feel is the Two Notes Cab M

 

[kkenda11]

For this purpose I think the Broughton Resonant Filter EQ would be better than the standard LPF/HPF:
https://www.broughtonaudio.com/product-page/resonant-filter-equalizer

If you check out the omnicabsim manual you will see that a large part of what it is doing is LP and HP with variable resonance peaks at the filter point.

Haven't gotten my hands on either to test yet -- I'd really like to try both.

 

[Texican]

According to this thread: Tone Hammer position in chain/live setting
the AGS mode supposedly has a HPF/LPF baked in. I’ll have to play around with getting a clean tone from the AGS circuit.

 

[Texican]

For this purpose I think the Broughton Resonant Filter EQ would be better than the standard LPF/HPF:
https://www.broughtonaudio.com/product-page/resonant-filter-equalizer

If you check out the omnicabsim manual you will see that a large part of what it is doing is LP and HP with variable resonance peaks at the filter point.

Haven't gotten my hands on either to test yet -- I'd really like to try both.

This is interesting... admittedly, I haven’t looked into that pedal much. The LPF/HPF just gets so much love around here so I focused in on that. I’d be curious to see what @Azure Skies has to say about my situation.

@JimmyM do you think that the VT Bass di might be a worthwhile solution? It’s a pedal I have been considering using for a while now, and I know you have a lot of experience with it but still use high pass and low pass filters along with a REDDI. It’s actually hard to keep up with what you use without paying attention to the date of your posting… I know you had a phase where you said “screw the sound guy, I’m using a mic on my cab“ lol.

 

[JimmyM]

This is interesting... admittedly, I haven’t looked into that pedal much. The LPF/HPF just gets so much love around here so I focused in on that. I’d be curious to see what @Azure Skies has to say about my situation.

@JimmyM do you think that the VT Bass di might be a worthwhile solution? It’s a pedal I have been considering using for a while now, and I know you have a lot of experience with it but still use high pass and low pass filters along with a REDDI. It’s actually hard to keep up with what you use without paying attention to the date of your posting… I know you had a phase where you said “screw the sound guy, I’m using a mic on my cab“ lol.

LOL! Yeah, well those sound guys usually ended up screwing me in the end. Then again, they would have screwed me up anyway so no big loss.

Anyway, in my new band where all I need is cab sim, a clean tone and light overdrive, I've dropped everything else and just use the VT Deluxe. Just makes sense to use a pedal I can drop a rechargeable battery in and does anything I'll need. And it's a lot better DI than a plain vanilla one if I can't bring my tube gear.

 

[Texican]

LOL! Yeah, well those sound guys usually ended up screwing me in the end. Then again, they would have screwed me up anyway so no big loss.

Anyway, in my new band where all I need is cab sim, a clean tone and light overdrive, I've dropped everything else and just use the VT Deluxe. Just makes sense to use a pedal I can drop a rechargeable battery in and does anything I'll need. And it's a lot better DI than a plain vanilla one if I can't bring my tube gear.

I might as well stop delaying the inevitable and just buy a VTBass DI. I wish I could try one locally, but no one stocks them.

You don’t have any issues sounding shrill through a PA running ONLY the VT Deluxe?

 

[JimmyM]

I might as well stop delaying the inevitable and just buy a VTBass DI. I wish I could try one locally, but no one stocks them.

You don’t have any issues sounding shrill through a PA running ONLY the VT Deluxe?

Never. It CAN be real bright, but that's just not understanding that the treble flattens out at about 10:00 and everything else goes to like 12:30 or thereabouts except the drive and level to be flat. They do that to imitate those ultra-hi switches. Someone there really likes Poison Won't get super dark, but I only send a slightly scooped signal to the board anyway with maybe a little reduction in treble.

 

[MDBass]

No you are not, although I kind of thought the Tone Hammer and BDDI had speaker simulation built in. Am I wrong? Anyway, can't speak on the OmniCabSim but I've used the H and LPF's to cut lows and highs to simulate the response of an SVT 810 or B-15 cab.

The Tone Hammer doesn’t have a speaker sim built in unless you engage the AGS, the BDDI does.

 

[Texican]

The Tone Hammer doesn’t have a speaker sim built in unless you engage the AGS, the BDDI does.

Well my ”BDDI” is actually a Dr. J Sparrow, but I’m pretty sure it runs the same. I look forward to working the Tone Hammer AGS and seeing what I come up with direct.

 

[superheavyfunk]

The thing about using a dedicated cab sim pedal like the OSCD rather than using a pedal like an HPF/LPF is that can sims usually come with everything you need to go direct in one box. Both the OSCM and the OSCD have DI and 'thru'. They also have mid shaping capabilities and different speaker response options. The deluxe has headphones out and aux too, for silent practice.

 

[PotsdamBass8]

I owned the Tone Hammer and the VTBass, but not at the same time. If I recall correctly, the Tone Hammer with the AGS on and the gain all the way down is going to be in the same neighborhood as the Vt Bass. Not exactly the same but you’ll get the idea. To me, it’s emulating a whole rig, including some saturation (even at low gain). But if you want a flatter and cleaner sound, you’d probably prefer a HPF/LPF or omnicab sim. I came very close to getting the omnicab, but I ended up getting an HX stomp because it could do all of those things plus a million other things. It’s more money, but if you will use eq, compression, cab/amp sims, and any other effects, it ends up being a bargain. There is a learning curve though. Omnicab or HPF/LPF are going to be much easier to use, especially if you like your sound and just want the offending frequencies rounded off.

 

[JimmyM]

I owned the Tone Hammer and the VTBass, but not at the same time. If I recall correctly, the Tone Hammer with the AGS on and the gain all the way down is going to be in the same neighborhood as the Vt Bass. Not exactly the same but you’ll get the idea. To me, it’s emulating a whole rig, including some saturation (even at low gain). But if you want a flatter and cleaner sound, you’d probably prefer a HPF/LPF or omnicab sim. I came very close to getting the omnicab, but I ended up getting an HX stomp because it could do all of those things plus a million other things. It’s more money, but if you will use eq, compression, cab/amp sims, and any other effects, it ends up being a bargain. There is a learning curve though. Omnicab or HPF/LPF are going to be much easier to use, especially if you like your sound and just want the offending frequencies rounded off.

I'd probably go along with that. Certainly wouldn't mind a Helix, either But if I were him, I'd try what I have already. He can certainly figure out a workable sound to send to FOH with a BDDI clone or the TH. Twist them knobs!

 

[PotsdamBass8]

I'd probably go along with that. Certainly wouldn't mind a Helix, either But if I were him, I'd try what I have already. He can certainly figure out a workable sound to send to FOH with a BDDI clone or the TH. Twist them knobs!

Absolutely, try the no-cost option first!

Btw, another great option for someone who does want a clean sound is the Q Strip. I had that briefly before the Stomp and it was a really well thought out eq pedal. It has the HPF and LPF, but also the ability to tweak your sound for the FOH.

 

[40Hz]

I had good luck with the Mooer Radar. It’s inexpensive. I got mine used for about $100. It’s also tiny, comes with a decent enough cab selection out of the box, and (here’s the best part) allows you to download your own or 3rd party IRs into it.

Here’s Pete Thorn’s rundown which was what first got me interested in it:

 

[Texican]

I'd probably go along with that. Certainly wouldn't mind a Helix, either But if I were him, I'd try what I have already. He can certainly figure out a workable sound to send to FOH with a BDDI clone or the TH. Twist them knobs!

The problem is I don’t get any time to “twist those knobs”! I may need to just borrow a QSC k12 and dial in my direct sound at home.

Funny you guys mentioned the Helix... my Guitar Player is begging me to get a Helix Stomp. He uses the full sized version and swears by it. I’ve just never been that tech savvy and also never liked the older multi effects units.

 

[ChaseBassism]

I had good luck with the Mooer Radar. It’s inexpensive. I got mine used for about $100. It’s also tiny, comes with a decent enough cab selection out of the box, and (here’s the best part) allows you to download your own or 3rd party IRs into it.

Here’s Pete Thorn’s rundown which was what first got me interested in it:

Joyo has just announced the R-08 Cab Box. It looks similar to the mooer with more functions: xlr, midi. Price arounds 180$

 

[ChaseBassism]

Joyo has just announced the R-08 Cab Box. It looks similar to the mooer with more functions: xlr, midi. Price arounds 180$

Forgot the pictures xd