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Cab vibrations & movement...

#42
Hmm, not to mix words man, but OSB has suited many manufacturers in their much higher dollar offerings for decades, I was trying to save the dude a buck or two. You're only deadening the panel, and this stuff is perfect for it. Use Gorilla glue for the adhesion, and it'll never budge.

And you might as well make a new box with the headaches it would take to properly backset a new baffle in this box, as it's all stained birch and cannot be hidden with tolex.
 
#43
I'd just like to mention that I know the design flaws that come along with my cabs full well, and I still love them. I may stuff them one day, I may not...I'm happy with their sound.

However, I've never had anything shake off the top of my cabs. Granted I use a big ol' heavy solid state amps with big rubber feet on the bottom.

It's kind of like smoking. I know it's bad for me and there's better things in the world I could be spending my money on...but I enjoy it.

Out of curiosity, Bill...how many commercially available cabs are out in the market right now that are not stuffed and poorly braced? Or would it be easier to name off the properly designed bass boxes out there?
 
#44
Awesomenaut said:
I'd just like to mention that I know the design flaws that come along with my cabs full well, and I still love them. I may stuff them one day, I may not...I'm happy with their sound.

However, I've never had anything shake off the top of my cabs. Granted I use a big ol' heavy solid state amps with big rubber feet on the bottom.

It's kind of like smoking. I know it's bad for me and there's better things in the world I could be spending my money on...but I enjoy it.

Out of curiosity, Bill...how many commercially available cabs are out in the market right now that are not stuffed and poorly braced? Or would it be easier to name off the properly designed bass boxes out there?
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet the properly designed ones would make a much shorter list. Subjective tone opinions and cool looks aside, skimping out on lining or a few sticks of bracing to save literally a few bucks (less than 10 at wholesale prices) is lame.
 
#45
Awesomenaut said:
Out of curiosity, Bill...how many commercially available cabs are out in the market right now that are not stuffed and poorly braced? Or would it be easier to name off the properly designed bass boxes out there?
Click to expand...
I'd guess that perhaps 10% of the cabs on the market today would meet my standards for quality of construction. And that's giving the benefit of the doubt. :eyebrow:
 
#46
will33 said:
I'm willing to bet the properly designed ones would make a much shorter list. Subjective tone opinions and cool looks aside, skimping out on lining or a few sticks of bracing to save literally a few bucks (less than 10 at wholesale prices) is lame.
Click to expand...

I'm going to play devil's advocate (remember what that means...) here and say that for Ampeg or whomever 10-20 bucks a unit isn't much to them, but for Emperor who employs something like four people it's a bit more to them. I've also heard that Emperor bases their cabinets off of old Orange designs, which I'm sure aren't the best designed cabinets out there.
 
#48
Well, dealing with vibrations can be a pain and you may even find the problem. But never stear away from your ear. If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters. I can say for certain that whether or not that Emperor makes this cabinet to top specs, it does carry a sound that people desire under certain applications of a required sound.

There are reasons why bands such as Baroness, The Sword, or Torche look for a certain tone that these "type" of bass cabinets can produce. Personally, I have been looking for that type of sound and the Emperor 412 cabinet sounds great and looks great to boot.

Yes, we can get all "techy" on the subject, but in the end, the ear is what matters. Always follow the Golden Rule:

Like all things tube, follow your ears. What may sound good to you, may not sound good to another. So, if it sounds good to you, that is all that matters.
 
#49
carbonfold said:
If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters..
Click to expand...
If you don't have a well made cab and a poorly made cab side by side to compare how they sound you've got no basis to know whether there's room for improvement based purely on listening to the poorly made cab. One might even think that a '52 Bassman was the be all and end all of bass amps if that was the only bass amp one ever heard.
 
#51
zachoff said:
Yeah, if bright, clean, full sounding perfected sonic reproduction is what you're after then sure... It's super important to have a perfectly tuned cab. If dirty, blanketed, and rocking is what you're after then probably not so much. All depends what you like & what you're after IMO.
Click to expand...

That's a weird assumption.

I'd think building and tuning properly would make said cab even dirtier, thicker, and rock that much harder and louder. Since it wouldn't be wasting a bunch of energy moving wood around rather than the speakers like it is supposed to.

They sure are purty, though.
 
#52
carbonfold said:
There are reasons why bands such as Baroness, The Sword, or Torche look for a certain tone that these "type" of bass cabinets can produce. Personally, I have been looking for that type of sound and the Emperor 412 cabinet sounds great and looks great to boot.

Yes, we can get all "techy" on the subject, but in the end, the ear is what matters. Always follow the Golden Rule:

Like all things tube, follow your ears. What may sound good to you, may not sound good to another. So, if it sounds good to you, that is all that matters.
Click to expand...

[FONT=&quot]Ear v. Tech is a false dichotomy. People don’t like to have to worry their pretty little heads about the details, but the ‘tech’ is based around real world cause/effect, real physics. I’m surprised the cab owner doesn’t want to take just an hour or so to put up some easily obtainable damping material in the cab. It wouldn’t be a major project and if he hated it, it comes right out. Bracing and ports are another story, but why not at least do the easy one?[/FONT]
 
#54
zachoff said:
Yeah, if bright, clean, full sounding perfected sonic reproduction is what you're after then sure... It's super important to have a perfectly tuned cab. If dirty, blanketed, and rocking is what you're after then probably not so much. All depends what you like & what you're after IMO.
Click to expand...

In my experience it's easier to EQ a well designed, reasonably flat cab to sound like a poorly designed one than the other way around. Especially if using effects or modeling.
 
#55
I completely agree. However, this isn't my first rodeo or the last. I'm just as nutty as the rest of us here with gear :). And do I wish sometimes I could just be a noobie at things and be happy. It would save me from the headaches.

I purposely bought my Emperor cabinet for the application that it was intended for. That simple. Anyone here has the right to dog it or support it I suppose. I have personally have owned tons of quality gear, commercial and private. As of right now, I'm enjoying the type of music I'm in and the Emperor supports it well. It wasn't bought to be the end-all for me.

All this is kinda like taking a show Ford Pinto to the Indy 500. Some people are looking for the show Ford Pinto while others may be looking for the high tuned horse-powered death machine. Maybe someone is looking to just cruise 35 mph in a shiney Ford Pinto. Or you may just look at is as the polished turd syndrome! haha

So, if you get the vibrations but like the sound, you have 5 choices:

1. Mod it yourself and attempt to resolve the issue on a DIY level
2. Have someone else mod it to resolve the issue
3. Sell it and your search continues
4. Contact the company and informed them you would like to lend them a hand with bass cabinet designs
5. Start building the cabinet as beautiful and functional as you seem fit.

I think that sums it all up :) But if the vibrations are so unbearable and you don't want to use a riser or mod braces, #3 would probably be your choice.


billfitzmaurice said:
If you don't have a well made cab and a poorly made cab side by side to compare how they sound you've got no basis to know whether there's room for improvement based purely on listening to the poorly made cab. One might even think that a '52 Bassman was the be all and end all of bass amps if that was the only bass amp one ever heard.
Click to expand...
 
#56
wcriley said:
In my experience it's easier to EQ a well designed, reasonably flat cab to sound like a poorly designed one than the other way around. Especially if using effects or modeling.
Click to expand...

Agreed.


Now, if one really does want their cab to have a built-in sound/eq/breakup point/whatever, and it floats their boat... that's fine. They can do that, and someone can build 'em. Not my cuppa tea, and very limiting, but... nothing wrong with it.

But that's no excuse for ignoring the basics. Bracing. Damping. Ports. If they think the thing rocks as-is, just imagine how much better it'd be with just a few tweaks. (To the design, not after the fact.)

I'm thinking along the lines of what Barefaced is doing to the "fridge" design. That's cool.

I bet if Emperor did some homework, they could probably come up will something killer that gets whatever this "sound" is, and looks just as good... while laying waste to the older, poorly designed stuff.


If you wanna drive a Pinto, no reason not to build a nice Pinto:

1352603758_1f98a53dcf.jpg
 
#57
I think I might try adding some panel bracing (a la the fearful designs) to my 2x15. I'm thinking I'd cut some 1/2" x 1" plywood strips to fit and glue them in place on the sides and back. This to me seems like it would be way easier than adding panel-to-panel dowel bracing, but possibly not as effective. Something is better than nothing though, right?

I also have some 1.5" thick fiberglass wall insulation laying around that I could stuff it with. Think one layer would be enough to make a noticeable improvement?
 
#58
NKBassman said:
I think I might try adding some panel bracing (a la the fearful designs) to my 2x15. I'm thinking I'd cut some 1/2" x 1" plywood strips to fit and glue them in place on the sides and back. This to me seems like it would be way easier than adding panel-to-panel dowel bracing, but possibly not as effective. Something is better than nothing though, right?

I also have some 1.5" thick fiberglass wall insulation laying around that I could stuff it with. Think one layer would be enough to make a noticeable improvement?
Click to expand...

1.5" would be enough to notice a difference, but plan on lining the cab rather than stuffing. Stuffing tends to work for sealed cabs, not ported cabs. And on the bracing, some kind is better than no kind right? Take a look a the plans on the 15/6 or 1515/66 to see the way it works in the fEARfuls and work a scheme for your cab.
 
#59
NKBassman said:
I'm thinking I'd cut some 1/2" x 1" plywood strips to fit and glue them in place on the sides and back. This to me seems like it would be way easier than adding panel-to-panel dowel bracing, but possibly not as effective. Something is better than nothing though, right?
Click to expand...
1/2x1 strips won't do diddly. You're already experiencing what happens when you fail to do it right the first time. I wouldn't repeat that error.
I also have some 1.5" thick fiberglass wall insulation laying around that I could stuff it with. Think one layer would be enough to make a noticeable improvement?
Click to expand...
Wall insulation is nasty stuff to work with. Again, do it right, use polyester batting, foam or felt carpet padding.
 
#60
You can take the stuffing out of an old ply filled bed pillow if money is an issue. You can buy new poly filled pillows for a few dollars. If they fit, don't even take them out of the cotton cover. Keep it neat.
 

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