Cabinet advice please...please...please.

[CL400Peavey]

Maybe simple, but it doesn't actually address my question. My point was that you say "buy once" but then basically say "until later", which defeats the purpose of your stance of "buy once", because he would end up buying twice.



Except as I've already established, the SWR cab would be lighter, louder, and lower than the SVT, so he would actually gain nothing by having it, aside from the particular tone of that particular cab. The question for the OP to answer is, is paying more money (a used Ampeg is going to be about twice what a used SWR is, new prices will be closer but the SWR will still be cheaper), and carrying around more weight (I don't know the exact number, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 pounds or so probably) worth whatever subjective advantages their might be with the tone? Keep in mind he'll have greater dynamic range (being able to play both quieter AND louder) than the SVT with the SWR. And you REALLY have to play them both at gig volumes (or close to it) to sort out which one will work better for you.

Maybe he didn't ask about all those other brands, but maybe he should be? He didn't really specify WHY he was only considering 2 cabs out of the dozens that might potentially work for him. A lot of times, people don't know what their options are, or even if they "know" the various options, they don't fully understand them. Like how a lot of people would just assume an 8x10 will outperform a 4x10. But if you look at the actual numbers, with the 2 cabs I'm talking about, the 4x10 is the hands down winner. When more people make educated gear choices, we ALL win, because ultimately that trickles down to the manufacturers, adjusts the used market, etc...

Frankly, with that Eden head and the SWR cab, you should be able to get pretty much any type of bass tone you want, and if you can't you probably aren't trying very hard. The SVT is probably going to be a bit more limited in it's range. Maybe that's what the guy wants. For a more specialized kind of player it might be better to have that specific sound. Also, there are other 4x10s out there, I just bring up the SWR because it's sort of the ideal (at least in terms of mass market stuff). Solid construction, good drivers, good tone, very high sensitivity which makes it great with lower power amps, and reasonably high power handling which makes it great with higher powered amps. And they're cheap and easy to find.

The OP doesn't mention an SWR cab being available to him, so its a moot point arguing for its purchase. Just for giggles though, on what basis do you claim a see 410 will be louder than an Ampeg 810?

 

[chadds]

Turn the tweeter down to barely on on the Eden.
The cabs may sound more similar.
You are though dealing with two different sounding cabinets.
If the SVT is your sound then do it.
I prefer a raging smaller cab to a barely working larger cab when bringing drive to a band.
I do find that rolling too large of a cab into some venues starts a perception loop that you'll be to loud that is not easily broken.
Can you buy used?
More choices less cost.

 

[Pork_Chop]

Jungleheat- If it makes you feel any better, I’ve played through dozens of different cabinets (manufactures and different setups) and the two I liked the most were the ones I posted. Of the two, I prefer the 8x10, but wanted some input by the community to be sure I was making a good decision. I appreciate that you are an SWR man (do you work for them?), I’ve played through an SWR, it sounded great, but I personally prefer the sound and action of the SVT. Your right, with a good head and bass, you can get what ever tone you want, but only the cabinet can give you that action.

 

[Son of Bovril]

The 410 in this case is not substantially less work to move than the 810... I'd go with the fridge

 

[Dave W]

I'd go for the 8X10 as well, especially since you like the sound of it so much.

 

[nashman]

The WT550 can handle a 2 ohm load (I have one too - and run at 2 ohm with a 4 ohm D212XLT and 4 ohm D210XST) . I would start -out with an Eden D410XLT 4-ohm, (500W from your WT550) - then if you need more - add another one later - or a D410XST 4 ohm (750W from your WT550).

 

[Joe Louvar]

<snip>

I don‘t drink coffee but if I did I‘d recommend decaf.

 

[Matthijs]

Buy the cab that you think sounds best. I think the Eden 4*10 is actually louder than the fridge, although it is almost impossible to compare the given efficiency specs.

 

[Son of Bovril]

^ although moving two eden 410 cabs is gonna be more mission than moving one ampeg 810. I think the point most of the guys are trying to make here is that the eden and ampeg cabs are both gonna sound quite different and it is more important to choose the cab that sounds good to you than whether it is 410 or 810 in this case

 

[CL400Peavey]

I don‘t drink coffee but if I did I‘d recommend decaf.

Decaf sucks...

I think the whole conversation is moot, seeing as the OP really should get 15's!

Buy the cab that you think sounds best. I think the Eden 4*10 is actually louder than the fridge, although it is almost impossible to compare the given efficiency specs.

There are actual specs from either company to substantiate this?

 

[Joe Louvar]

Jungleheat- If it makes you feel any better, I&#8217;ve played through dozens of different cabinets (manufactures and different setups) and the two I liked the most were the ones I posted. Of the two, I prefer the 8x10, but wanted some input by the community to be sure I was making a good decision. I appreciate that you are an SWR man (do you work for them?), I&#8217;ve played through an SWR, it sounded great, but I personally prefer the sound and action of the SVT. Your right, with a good head and bass, you can get what ever tone you want, but only the cabinet can give you that action.

Hopefully B-string answered your question - and as you already pointed out &#8220;all 810s aren't the same&#8221; so I think you&#8217;re on the right track of buying the one you like best. Cheers.

 

[Matthijs]

^ although moving two eden 410 cabs is gonna be more mission than moving one ampeg 810. I think the point most of the guys are trying to make here is that the eden and ampeg cabs are both gonna sound quite different and it is more important to choose the cab that sounds good to you than whether it is 410 or 810 in this case

I thought that was exactly the point I was making. I just wanted to add the volume question is moot, because that specific 810 is not nescesarilly louder than that specific 410.

Ampeg lists the sensitiviy for the svt 810av as 100db (-3db 58/5khz) . Eden lists the d410klt (I think that is the cab the op is refering to?) as 106 db (+/- 2db 50/15khz). I'm not saying those figures will tell you for sure which one is the loudest, but they sure don't suggest the ampeg is automatically louder than the eden.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I thought that was exactly the point I was making. I just wanted to add the volume question is moot, because that specific 810 is not nescesarilly louder than that specific 410.

Ampeg lists the sensitiviy for the svt 810av as 100db (-3db 58/5khz) . Eden lists the d410klt (I think that is the cab the op is refering to?) as 106 db (+/- 2db 50/15khz). I'm not saying those figures will tell you for sure which one is the loudest, but they sure don't suggest the ampeg is automatically louder than the eden.

Correct, but with out driver specs on both cabs and other charts and specs those numbers dont mean much either. There are a lot of commercial cabs that have specs that are GROSSLY inflated or presented in a fashion that are not comparable to other manufacturers.

 

[bdplaid]

... worth whatever subjective advantages their might be with the tone?

and that is the ballgame. are there objective absolutes concerning tone? No.

And FWIW, objectively, there is no physical possibility that any 4x10 can move as much air as an 8x10. the 8x10 simply has more speaker area to use as a pump. Having said that, how each SOUNDS while pumping that air is also the ballgame. My money goes to the Ampeg (and generally I don't like Ampeg stuff, but the SVT is something of a "gold standard").

 

[bdplaid]

I don‘t drink coffee but if I did I‘d recommend decaf.

OMG that's funny!

 

[CL400Peavey]

and that is the ballgame. are there objective absolutes concerning tone? No.

And FWIW, objectively, there is no physical possibility that any 4x10 can move as much air as an 8x10. the 8x10 simply has more speaker area to use as a pump. Having said that, how each SOUNDS while pumping that air is also the ballgame. My money goes to the Ampeg (and generally I don't like Ampeg stuff, but the SVT is something of a "gold standard").

Yes but no. Its not about area, its about displacement. If those 4 speakers had a big enough xMax then they may be able to put out more SPL than the 810. If that was the case though I would be suspect to their sensitivity across the frequency spectrum. This is part of why a fEARful is designed why it is. The LF driver can put out a huge amount of SPL in the low frequency region, but its not a full range driver, and has limited mid/high frequency response. To round this out a mid driver is crossed over with the sub woofer.

That said, the 810 is cheaper, the OP likes the sound better, some feel that it is easier to move than the 810 if you have the vehicle room. Why are we still debating this topic?

 

[bdplaid]

CL400: right, and what I was getting at is that in the vapor, no 4x10 will move as much air. but mount 8x10s on a piece of paper with no cab, and sudenly that 4x10 is a monster....

The point being, comparing cabs without hearing them is a waste of time.

And everyone is aware that efficiency of a speaker is, officially at least, measured at 1KHz. Not really relevant for bass cabs.

Another salient point in this argument was made concerning the psychodrama brought about by club owners when they see an SVT rolling into the place. they assume it will be loud, and therefore it is. I have a Schroeder 1512 that'll knock the socks off of any stage, but because it's about the size of single 12 while housing both a 15 and a 12 while being super efficient, no one even suspects anything. Stealth is good.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I hear you, I have a 35 pound 15/6 that will spank just about anything in its weight class.

 

[klejst]

I agree, in reading it seems the OP is leaning more towards the 810 and since the OP does not mind the weight and handling of the cab I say go for the Ampeg 810. I was actually in the same boat about a week ago when looking for a new cab debating whether to go with a 410, 610 or 810. I ended up going with a 810 and I love it. Sounds great and sure it's bigger, heavier and can be bulky (although mine is really not to me) I'll have no problem being heard now. I too believe It's better to have more then less, especially if you find yourself not having PA/mixed in support.

I have actually found the 810 to be easier to move around because of the tilt back and wheels on it. A 410 just seems harder for me to life then the 810 because I can just tilt and slide the 810 into the back of my truck. A 410 I had to always dead lift it up into the back of the truck. The only enemy of the 810 I have found so far is stairs.

Try them out (again) and get what you want, what your willing to work with and what sounds the best to you. Just my opinion on the subject.

 

[Pork_Chop]

Well, the deed is done. I went with the 8x10. Just about after I put the money down, I was looking at it and thought, oh boy, this is going to be hard to move. However, it was actually easier than the Peavy 115 combo w/2x10 cab I've been lugging around. The Peavy is just as heavy, but I actually have to pick it up to get it into my truck. I tilted the Ampeg back like a hand truck, wheeled to the back of my truck and slid it right in with no problems. Getting it out was just as easy. Anyway, thanks so much for all of the input. Now it's time for me to input my bass through my new rig and have some fun.