Mr. Foxen
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Cabinet advice please...please...please.
- Thread starter Pork_Chop
- Start date
+1
This is why I was asking if there was any SPL charts for any of the cabs in question. We can talk about ratings all day, but all that would be laid to rest if there were measurements out there. I'm not invested in either the 810 or 410, I think they are both rubbish.
For tone, spl, and cab weight my rig does it for me. Its way lighter than a lot of 810's, spanks just about any commercial cab in spl hands down, and I like the tone I get.
Gigged with my new 8x10 last night. We were in heaven! You guys were right. Thanks so much for your input and advice. For the 4x10ers, it’s not about the loudness, it’s about the fullness, and the 4x10 can’t match up. As far as transport is concerned, I just tilted it back, wheeled it to the back of my truck, tilted it in and was on my way. No heavy lifting involved. Thanks again.
...in your opinion.
Until you get to a staircase. Good thing no music venues ever have stairs. Oh wait.
Anyway, if you like it, that's cool. I just wanted to point some things out before you made a decision possibly based on half truths and misconceptions.
As far as sensitivity and low end extension and losing midrange. If you have the lows, you can EQ in the mids if you need to, because they take next to no power. But if you don't have enough lows to start with, you will be chasing that rabbit forever (until you change gear). Not to mention, most people CUT mids on their amps anyway. For a guy playing old R&B kind of stuff, he might not want a lot of deep lows, so the sealed cab (let's face, that's what this thread is mainly about, the differences between sealed and ported cabs), but for the average "modern" bass player (or just anyone who plays more bass heavy music), a ported high sensitivity 4x10 is probably a better bet than a sealed low/mid sensitivity 8x10.
This part +1
I actually dont care for sealed cabs, I like a lot of lows. I also play a cab that will out perform any 410 in low end volume.
wait... what? cutting mids is a recipe for getting lost in the mix.
Tell that to everyone using and loving their sound with a sealed Ampeg cab. Since we are trusting published spec from commercial manufacturers, Ampeg lists the 810 at 100 dB at 1w/m. Thats pretty middle of the road if not high mid for the average commercial cab. Are there cabs with higher sensitivity? sure as listed by the manufacturer. Until I see someone actually measuring those values in a consistent way I will take them with a grain of salt.
100db for an EIGHT by TEN is pathetic. That puts each driver at about 91db, which is pretty sad.
Anyway, if you are going to take the "manufacturers lie" strategy of arguing, then the whole discussion is meaningless. Ampeg and SWR aren't particularly known for exaggerating their specs. I also doubt manufacturers are as likely to stretch the sensitivity numbers because most people don't even realize what they mean, so they don't sell cabs (or garner much higher prices), compared to for instance power handling. Not to mention, if they DID stretch the truth much (more than 1 or 2 db), they'd be at too much risk of getting caught (look at TCE and the backlash against them), especially in the days of the internet where everyone knows everything.
Anyway, if you are going to take the "manufacturers lie" strategy of arguing, then the whole discussion is meaningless. Ampeg and SWR aren't particularly known for exaggerating their specs. I also doubt manufacturers are as likely to stretch the sensitivity numbers because most people don't even realize what they mean, so they don't sell cabs (or garner much higher prices), compared to for instance power handling. Not to mention, if they DID stretch the truth much (more than 1 or 2 db), they'd be at too much risk of getting caught (look at TCE and the backlash against them), especially in the days of the internet where everyone knows everything.
Not lie per say, but they dont have anything backing up their measurements. As has been my whole point all along. One manufacturers 100 dB may be anothers 102. Barefaced is the only commercial manufacturer that talks about what those measurements mean. You like a ported 410 over a sealed 810, great so do I. But you cant draw lines in the sand based on information that is slapped on a product by a marketing group. As soon as someone independent like Bass Gear Magazine tests those two cabs and publishes their findings then some harder conclusions can be made. If you want to go by what manufacturers post on the internet, thats your business.
Gee, Jungleheat, are you a one man bass band? Me, I play with several other people, and we always help each other set up. Before, I would have to make two trips up stairs to bring in my 1x15 combo and 2x10. Now me and one of my buddies will be able to do it in one. For small gigs, I'll just plug into my 2x10.
Hey, I'm not an Ampeg guy either, just very respectful of what the SVT cab does. And you want math? Tell me the equation for why a 410 - any 410 - at the same height as the top of an SVT won't FEEL as good. I know why - because half of the cab isn't on the floor. And sure, we can make a 4x10 ungodly loud. Guitarists do it all the time. but what does it sound like with a bass going through it?
Something to really get this thread divergent is the trick the 2x10 guys use - stacking two 2x10s on top of each other, but on their side, to create something an 8x10 half stack/4x10 line array - it does work. I've tried it and it had good sound and feel. Not and SVT mind you, but was nice...
I'm not a math guy. I'm a professional bass player. My ears don't need a pencil to figure out what works and what doesn't. But this reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:
"To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
Peace.
I'm doing this now with two Markbass 2x10s under an Eden WT550 head. Those little 210 cabs have retired my Eden d410xlt no questions asked. Also they're lightweight at 30# each and most of the time I only need one of them with a board under the front to tilt it up.
Not sure how they would sound next to an SVT 8x10 rig, but pound for pound I've never heard better.
(to the tune of "Frosty the Snowman")
There must have been some magic in that SVT he found.
For when he placed it under his head folks began to dance around.
Since this turned into a math competition and flurrry of specs instead of Eden 410 or Ampeg 810 my two cents. Just for the record I have owned 3 SVT810's, two of them forty years ago because they were about as good as it got back then. Owned one about 7 years ago when I got back into playing and never used it on a gig once. I also had 2 Aguilar 410's and two Bergantino 410's. A Berg 410 or Aguilar 410 double stack will waste an Ampeg 810 in sheer output, low end extension and most importantly tone. As mentioned I'm not a math major but believe it has to do with the quality of drivers being used, Bergs and Aguilars use expensive die cast drivers, Ampeg much cheaper stamped steel drivers. Try an Aguilar DB 810 or a Fender Pro 810 Pro 610 or Pro 410 all with die cast drivers and some of the best sounding most dynamic cabs I've heard. Love the Ampeg 810 and does what it was designed to do. I think the Eden has cast drivers but not sure. I guess I'm in a rutt, all my favorite cabs have heavy cast drivers which means this old guy is stuck carrying all this weight.
Right a ported 810 configuration will be louder than a sealed 810. Thats the nature of the design. If we are once again branching out of the cabs that the OP listed (moot point as he already bought the 810), then let me through the fEARful 1515/66 into the ring. It has way more potential for max SPL than any other cab listed.
The 410 is offered in both 4 and 8 ohms. Means they have different speakers. I would suspect that the speakers in the 8 Ohm 410 are the same as those in the 4 Ohm 810. Which would lead me to believe that the 8 Ohm 410 sensitivity is somewhere around 97 dB. Or the 810 is more like 103. That is if the 4 Ohm 410 is accurately rated. Which just goes to show that the specs commercial manufactured cabs are suspect. I hope that the 810 is actually more than what it is rated at, that would be a nice bonus. Doesnt detract from the fact that unless they use three different drivers (possible, not plausible), we should take their ratings with a grain of salt. If those are spot on then the SWR cab ranks right up there with the ampeg 810.
Ah, but that one is 3db down at 37 Hz, not 10db down at 50hz like the Ampeg (I think that's what it was). There are always tradeoffs.
Get an svt410he. You won't need the extra volume the 810 is capable of, and you get the same sound. I had an 810. Too big to haul without a damn good reason. You can always get another 410 to stack later if you find you need more oomph.
Which is just a factor of the cab being ported. The over all sensitivity is the same. Apparently pathetic. Its also the same as the ported 410 in both 4 and 8 Ohms. So unless they are using three different drivers in the cabs, their ratings might have a fudge factor here and there.
- Feb 9, 2012
- 349
- 11
- Disclosures
- Authorized Builder: fEARful bass, greenboy designs, Bill Fitzmaurice
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