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Cables

#3
funkysurfer said:
I have always used standard ones like Fender & so forth. They've held up well over the years and it's time for some new ones.

I was wondering if there really is a "great difference" soundwize for both live & recording purposes in cable choice?
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As far as high impedence (1/4") cables go, the longer the cable the greater the high end roll off. This is due to increased capacitance.

Or if the cables are really, really cheap you get the same thing. Probably due to the quality of the conductor.

Generally they will all sound the same unless you believe the Monster Cable hype. I've owned several and was sad that I spent so much on them. I wanted to believe. :crying:

XLR (low impedence) cables are different. No high end roll off but it will pay to get decent quality connectors for durability purposes.

:D

Joe.
 
#4
funkysurfer said:
I have always used standard ones like Fender & so forth. They've held up well over the years and it's time for some new ones.

I was wondering if there really is a "great difference" soundwize for both live & recording purposes in cable choice?
Click to expand...

I use 10' Zolla cables and really like them. They are not cheap

Ric
 
#6
Apperantely and I may be wrong on this but gold tip connections are good for connections that are more permanent like in a studio since the cold doesn't corode as easily as the other materials thus giving you good signal for longer. However I'm dubious as to the benefit compared to cost of some cables. As long as there is good solder and a durable connector thats about all you need in my opinion. Copper is still copper at the end of the day. I would pay for durability as opposed to magnificant sound quality. That being said I've had the same cheapy cables for well over a year (maybe two) and they still work. I just took care of them.
 
#7
As far as high impedence (1/4") cables go...XLR (low impedence) cables are different. No high end roll off ...
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The type of connector on a cable has little or no influence on the impedance of the cable. Just because it's got a 1/4" jack on the end doesn't automatically mean it's "high impedance" or that it has high capacitance.

Mic cables (XLR) DO have high end roll off, let me first assure you of that. ALL cables have a frequency response range, there's simply no escaping it. The difference comes down to the quality of the cable itself. Since instrument cables are often a neglected part of a rig, this manifests itself as the notion that instrument cables suck tone - which doesn't have to be the case if you take care when purchasing.

However, what you are saying does have some basis in fact. This is because of the high output impedance of guitars and basses. The low pass filter formed by the output impedance of the instrument and the parallel capacitance of the cable is what causes the high end roll off. Use the same cable with a lower output impedance source (for eg; active instead of passive) and the effect will be reduced.

You can make instrument cables out of microphone cables without cause for concern. You could go the other way too, but usually instrument cables only have two conductors while balanced mic cables require three.

Generally, cables with characteristic impedances are used in telecommunications and video systems. (50 ohm and 75 ohm are the common standards.) However, analogue audio cables are usually not impedance matched - there's simply no need. Ensure the source has a low impedance, the destination has a high impedance, and the cable in between only needs to be relatively low capacitance and you'll be fine.

gold tip connections are good
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yes they are, but they're only as good as the connection they are mated to. Given in most basses, FX and amps these are cheap nickel plated crud, then the benefit of gold tips is significantly reduced. Also, the ground connection is just as important as the tip, and yet it misses out of the gold plating in a lot of cables that I see.
 
#8
Lowtonejoe said:
As far as high impedence (1/4") cables go, the longer the cable the greater the high end roll off. This is due to increased capacitance.
Click to expand...

Correction required here. High end roll off = Inductance. Capacitance is low end roll-off.

Check out the Tara Labs Challenge thread in this forum. A lot of people went to a lot of trouble to test high end cables in real world situations, and even those who wanted to believe were left feeling dissatisfied. My experiences mirror these results.
 
#9
Petebass said:
Correction required here. High end roll off = Inductance. Capacitance is low end roll-off.

Check out the Tara Labs Challenge thread in this forum. A lot of people went to a lot of trouble to test high end cables in real world situations, and even those who wanted to believe were left feeling dissatisfied. My experiences mirror these results.
Click to expand...

Oops, my bad.

But at least the word had the right suffix.

Heh heh.

:D

Joe.
 
#10
Having worked in hi fi for many years ive been accustomed to messing about with cables, i recently bought a zaolla cable and was impressed, but then i tried monster and really was impressed (bass cables), far better than the zaolla IMHO, i was using pretty good hotlines cables before but have now changed every cable in my set up from patch leads to speaker cables for monster and get lots more punch, depth and delivery.
 
#11
Cables, do they make a difference, well yes they do, though harder to detect on bass than guitar.

Example, the guitar player and I were using the hotline cheaper leads, mine broke down so I decided to buy these di marzio leads with the cord type surrounds, cannot at this moment think what they are called, bloody stiff things and not cheap . No matter, the guitarist borrows my new lead and plugs it into his Soldano, the difference in clarity and tone was Amazing to say the least, on the bass less noticable but certainly there.

At the end of the day it really comes down to what you can reasonably afford, but if you can afford a better cable it will give your bass a bit more clarity. If you don't agree then clean the wax out of your ears :-]
 
#12
Correction required here. High end roll off = Inductance. Capacitance is low end roll-off.
Click to expand...
It's not that straight forward actually. Capacitance and/or inductance can be used to form high and/or low pass filters depending on the configuration.

A simple low pass filter (high end roll off) is formed by resistance in series and capacitance in parallel. Since the output impedance of your pickups is considered to be in series, and the capacitance of a cable is considered to be in parallel, therefore it forms a low pass filter.

An inductive low pass filter requires the inductance to be in series, and most still contain capacitance in parallel to complete the filter. A capacitive HIGH pass (low end roll off) filter requires the capacitance in series which is simply not the case with cables. Likewise, an inductive high pass filter requires the inductance in parallel which, again, is unlikely to be present in significant magnitude to have any effect.

While I'm not disputing that there may be some small inductance involved in some cases, by far the larger contributing factor is the parallel capacitance between the signal conductors and the shielding.

Take a look at the Canare or Mogami websites and you'll see that they specify cable capacitance, not inductance.
 
#13
gafbass02 said:
Having worked in hi fi for many years ive been accustomed to messing about with cables, i recently bought a zaolla cable and was impressed, but then i tried monster and really was impressed (bass cables), far better than the zaolla IMHO, i was using pretty good hotlines cables before but have now changed every cable in my set up from patch leads to speaker cables for monster and get lots more punch, depth and delivery.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's one of the few times I've ever seen anyone praise monster cables so highly... especially over something like zaolla. Eveyone on all the pro audio forums pretty much trash them endlessly as marketing hype. I use/d a bunch of different cables for my instrument hookups and in my home studio... including monster, mogami, and at least a dozen others from cheap to expensive. I like the Mogami's but over the past year I've been getting most of my cable from Butch @ Bayou Cables and they're as good, if not better, as anything else I've tried. He uses all top-notch stuff... the build quality and prices are fantastic.

More info here: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177583

A lot of people seem to praise the George L cables too, though I've had no experience with those.
---
c
 
#15
Cables most certainly do impact the signal chain!

I use Bill Lawrence low capacitance cables; solderless, and 20 pf/foot capacitance. Anything higher than 20 pf/ft and you lose highs going to the amp. I'll occasionally use a maximum 15' length, though I typically use 10'-12' for practice & playing out. This way I keep cable capacitance effect to a minimum.

The benefits are more pronounced/more easily heard with guitar, which I also play (you'll also need some guitar amp speakers that can give you those sweet highs, not those that cut off at 5000 hz). However, I always strive to get the most highs to the amp, and I'll take care of removing the highs if not needed for a certain song. Same goes for bass...I want the cleanest possible/optimum signal (with all highs and lows) arriving at the amp and I'll take care of shaping it there. I have found the BL cables accomplish just that, at a fraction of the so-called boutique cables' cost.
 
#16
the only experience i've had where a cable made something sound different (and not because it was broken) was at a store where a salesman let me try out the standard monster cable and the pricey monstser bass cable.

the bass-specific cable added a very noticable amount of low end to the sound, and seemed muddy. apparently they're designed that way intentionally. i went with the standard cable.
 

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