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Can a Bazz Fuss blow my speaker?

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#21
BawanaRik said:
A fuzz can blow both tweeters and woofers. And anything in between. There's not only gain but wave shape. Alot of power is dissapated by the speaker moving. If the fuzz drives the amp to the point where the speaker isn't moving, as in a flatening peak, no power is used to move the speaker. Compare in your mind the shape of a sin wave with a sin wave with a flat top.

This is also why it's possible to blow a high powered speaker with a low powered amp. The wave shape flattens and the speaker isn't moving. Adding to this is while the speaker isn't moving the amp is looking at a resistive load rather than a reactive load with both reistance and inductance being added together the current is increased.
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Not one word of what you said has any basis in engineering fact. Please refrain from repeating the myth of under-powering that members of this forum have spent the last ten years trying to bury once and for all. And read the FAQ at the top of the first page. :rollno:
 
#23
Generally you want your cab to be rated at 2x or more the power of your amp if you are going to be running any kind of fuzz/clipping/overdrive wide open. I'd personally want more like 3x. I run my Bugera 1960 tube amp rated at 150w into a 2x12 cab rated at 600w and have no problems even when messing around with the amp heavily overdriven WFO. I think the Marshall 4x12 guitar cab is rated at 280w for use with a 100w head...
 
#24
Roadkill said:
Generally you want your cab to be rated at 2x or more the power of your amp if you are going to be running any kind of fuzz/clipping/overdrive wide open. I'd personally want more like 3x. I run my Bugera 1960 tube amp rated at 150w into a 2x12 cab rated at 600w and have no problems even when messing around with the amp heavily overdriven WFO. I think the Marshall 4x12 guitar cab is rated at 280w for use with a 100w head...
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Don't bother with this rule either. It also doesn't work like that.
 
#27
Roadkill said:
An amp rated at 100w clean will put out close to 200w if heavily overdriven.
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No one has said otherwise. But to say 'you want your cab to be rated at 2x or more the power of your amp if you are going to be running any kind of fuzz/clipping/overdrive wide open' is too simplistic. If it was an absolute rule there'd be a lot more dead 30 watt Celestion Greenbacks lying in landfills. Which brings us back to the point that if you want to run heavy distortion you should do so through a rig meant to do so, a guitar head and speaker or guitar combo, while using a standard bass rig to handle the low end.
 
#28
...Or putting it a bit differently, there is more than one way to crash a car. Using a cab rated for much more power than the amp is rated for is one valid approach, just as driving well below the speed limit is a valid approach to avoiding a crash. Several other approaches work just as well, and most people avoid crashes each day out of sheer luck too. But by the same token, none of the possible methods by themselves is proof against a crash--which is why it's too simplistic to call any one of them a reliable rule. For example, maybe a given cab is rated for 500 W at 1 KHz, but it actually starts to have mechanical failure at a far lesser wattage at 100 Hz. Or maybe a cab is so well-designed to avoid overexcursion that a user can "speed" all the time without wrecking. Or, more commonly, an amp is putting out much LESS than its rated wattage most of the time, even when the input stage is clipping, and especially even when fuzz pedals are being used! We have to be aware of all of these possibilities while driving an amp.
 
#31
I= V/R. An 8 ohm speaker has two major vectors that add up to this 8 ohms. A risistance that's probably 6.7 ohm and an inductive part that about 1.3 ohms.

When operating as it should that means 12 volts / 8 ohms = 1.5 amps.

When there is jus6.7 ohms=t the DC component the equation looks like this.

12 volts / 6.7 ohms = 1.78 amps. 1.78 amps is more than 1.5 amps. This means an increased chance of the speaker blowing up.

It get's a little more involved since this is a snap shot and undersates the case. But you're never going to be able to understand this simplified version so why get involved with RMS and things like that.
 
#32
BawanaRik said:
I= V/R. An 8 ohm speaker has two major vectors that add up to this 8 ohms. A risistance that's probably 6.7 ohm and an inductive part that about 1.3 ohms.

When operating as it should that means 12 volts / 8 ohms = 1.5 amps.

When there is jus6.7 ohms=t the DC component the equation looks like this.

12 volts / 6.7 ohms = 1.78 amps. 1.78 amps is more than 1.5 amps. This means an increased chance of the speaker blowing up.

It get's a little more involved since this is a snap shot and undersates the case. But you're never going to be able to understand this simplified version so why get involved with RMS and things like that.
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You need to check your old textbooks. Ohms law with DC resistance has very little to due with AC impedance of a speaker that varies with frequency and even cab tuning. Inductance is measured in henrys and plays no part at all in ohms law. :)
 
#33
BawanaRik said:
Yes it's possible for a low powered amp to blow up a speaker that rated beyond it rated watts.

BTW I would like to see your proof that it can't happen.
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I've turned my B-15 up all the way into several cabs that are rated to handle a lot more than the 25w RMS the B-15 can put out. Number of speakers I've blown: 0.
 
#34
That's the way I read this. Hey everyone the low powered amps won't blow a speaker crowd has offered to assume all liabilty for any speakers you've blown up by following their advice.

It's called responsibilty. Just email them with a estimate and they will, to back up their expert advice give you a new speaker, of your choice.

What a great bunch of "dudes".


JimmyM said:
I've turned my B-15 up all the way into several cabs that are rated to handle a lot more than the 25w RMS the B-15 can put out. Number of speakers I've blown: 0.
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#36
Chef said:
Moderator Insert:

You guys make you points politely. Feel free to not post, or, set people your don't like to ignore.
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Point taken. Since you have no problem with allowing the nonsense that BawanaRik is spewing to stand but do have a problem with some lighthearted fun I'm out of here.
 
#37
I'm not here "to enforce science," and quite frankly, I'm under-qualified to do so.
That, however, has nothing to do with the way y'all were treating each other.
 
#38
I'm confused. I can't see where Bill was being rude in any way. BawanaRik has been a little snarky, but nothing serious. It's getting hard to know where the line is. Obviously others feel the same way - a long standing, regularly contributing member of TB of has just quit a thread on a topic in which he has immense knowledge and experience. I can't see how that helps the TB community at all.
 
#39
Hawkbone said:
I'm confused. I can't see where Bill was being rude in any way. BawanaRik has been a little snarky, but nothing serious. It's getting hard to know where the line is. Obviously others feel the same way - a long standing, regularly contributing member of TB of has just quit a thread on a topic in which he has immense knowledge and experience. I can't see how that helps the TB community at all.
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Well said.

BTW, it's not about "enforcing science"... as if that's some sort of agenda... it is a matter of promoting truth instead of myths that have been debunked countless times.
 
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