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Can a Hofner do motown/soul?

#83
Chrisk-K said:
It’s not Motown unless the bassist plays a P with flats.
Click to expand...
Let me qualify this by suggesting that you may mean, "classic" 60's... maybe early 70s Motown. Rick James, the Commodores, BoysIIMen, Eryka Badu, Offset... many others record/recorded for Motown with roundwound/slap synth bass.. no BASS. I only do this for the benefit of the OP. NOT to be correcty corretorson. One of the reasons James Jamerson fell out of favor at Motown, was his refusal, or inability ( don't know which)... to "modernize" his sound/playing.. SUPER IRONIC, right?
 
#85
nibbles said:
Heya, I'm looking to buy my first bass and am in a bit of a pickle.

I have smallish hands and am left handed, so there are limited options for me.

I really like the sound of Hofners, as one of my favourite genres is psych rock and they work really well there. From Beatles to Tame Impala. The Hofner, as a small, short scale bass, is also one I can play very well with.

I also really like Motown/Soul type music, where there's a danceable groove to it.

For this, I'd expect to choose a P-Bass, which seems to be the most common bass for these musicians, people like James Jamerson etc. It seems to be THE classic sound.

A P-Bass is obviously a regular, larger size bass so my expectation is it will feel difficult with my hands.

I was wondering, given the Hofner is more to my preferred size, if I could get close to the P-Bass sound with the Hofner. From researching online the general opinion seems to be heck no!

But, I wanted to re-ask it here because from what I can see, the Jamerson sound, apart from his amazing ability of course!, seems to come from a P-Bass, DI'd, with labella flats and often with a foam mute.

From listening, this gives it a nice thump...which reminds me of a Hofner. Admittedly I am definitely an amateur with bass stuff, learning as I go along, so I am assuming I'm still wrong.

But I was wondering if anyone felt it was outrageous to think that for that sort of motown/soul sound, actually the Hofner might be alright? (So I can take advantage of the short scale)

Or, would you suggest that no actually the P-Bass is still the one to go for, even if it'll take some stretching with my hands!

Plus - if you'd suggest the P-Bass, then is there a level of quality that is suggested one go for? As in, is Squier/Fender Player alright, or would you suggest levelling up etc? I'm looking for something that will last a long time.

Also, quite reminder that I am left handed so I need something that I can get as a leftie. IE I did think about a Mustang bass but they don't do them as lefties unfortunately!

Thank you for any thoughts!
Click to expand...
I wouldn't sleep on the short scale Music Man basses. I recently became a MM convert. A lot of tone is plucking hand placement , the amount finger pad you use and tone knob adjustment. I'll explain. I would take my passive Music Man SUB or active Music Man SR5 on virtually any gig. When I rest my thumb on the neck, roll the bass tone all the up, maybe treble all the way down...and use the one finger technique... like I would on upright, I use a lot of my finger tip... almost the whole first finger joint, I get a fat deep tone that I would put up against any P bass for a Motown sound. When I use less of my finger, like, just tips and alternate, or use a pick.. closer to the bridge.. it's whole different tone.. even without touching any tone knobs. Carol Kaye who is about 5ft 2- 5ft 4, played on a quite a few Motown artist's records, used a P Bass , flat wound strings and a pick. I don't think she has particularly big mitts . So, you could play a PBass. As others have others have noted, a Hofner will get you a variety of tones too. It does have a shorter scale. It is hollow and thus, lighter. Sir Paul and sometimes his guitar player, plays Hofners exclusively live, even on his Wings and solo stuff. Here is some inspiration for YOU and anyone else who thinks their hands may be too small for (insert type of bass here). Youtube This bassist, I think, mainly plays a short scale MM, but here she is playing a full sized PBass. As others' in the thread have noted.. Enthusiasm goes a long way.
 
#89
jbasedig said:
I wouldn't sleep on the short scale Music Man basses. I recently became a MM convert. A lot of tone is plucking hand placement , the amount finger pad you use and tone knob adjustment. I'll explain. I would take my passive Music Man SUB or active Music Man SR5 on virtually any gig. When I rest my thumb on the neck, roll the bass tone all the up, maybe treble all the way down...and use the one finger technique... like I would on upright, I use a lot of my finger tip... almost the whole first finger joint, I get a fat deep tone that I would put up against any P bass for a Motown sound. When I use less of my finger, like, just tips and alternate, or use a pick.. closer to the bridge.. it's whole different tone.. even without touching any tone knobs. Carol Kaye who is about 5ft 2- 5ft 4, played on a quite a few Motown artist's records, used a P Bass , flat wound strings and a pick. I don't think she has particularly big mitts . So, you could play a PBass. As others have others have noted, a Hofner will get you a variety of tones too. It does have a shorter scale. It is hollow and thus, lighter. Sir Paul and sometimes his guitar player, plays Hofners exclusively live, even on his Wings and solo stuff. Here is some inspiration for YOU and anyone else who thinks their hands may be too small for (insert type of bass here). Youtube This bassist, I think, mainly plays a short scale MM, but here she is playing a full sized PBass. As others' in the thread have noted.. Enthusiasm goes a long way.
Click to expand...
I took a few in person lessons from Carol. She has man-sized hands and has a fretting technique where she doesn't use one finger per fret but more of an upright style where she will fret notes with a couple of fingers and move her whole hand the play subsequent notes.
 
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#91
Cave Puppy said:
I took a few in person lessons from Carol. She has man-sized hands and has a fretting technique where she doesn't use one finger per fret but more of an upright style where she will fret notes with a couple of fingers and move her whole hand the play subsequent notes.
Click to expand...
That is awesome that you got to sit down with such a legendary tone/feel/groove monster. I have always wondered if she used a felt pick or plastic pick. Would love to know. I've read in several sources that she was a studio guitar player first. She's just a great musician Now I am left to wonder, what qualifies as man-sized hands?. I have to pivot to play one finger per fret, directly behind the fret, on the first four frets of a bass guitar. I am a man (it feels kinda weird to write that). I'd say I have man sized hands, but definitely not Stanley Clarke hands. Thanks for the post. Recently, I was on TB an my wife asked me what I was doing. I gave her the Cliff's notes version of what TB is and just how cool it is to interact with so many who just LOVE bass and how great it is to learn and share on TB. I downplayed the obsessive G.A.S. that some of us may suffer from.
 
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#93
jbasedig said:
I've read in several sources that she was a studio guitar player first. She's just a great musician Now I am left to wonder, what qualifies as man-sized hands?
Click to expand...
She has above average sized hands for a woman of her stature, IIRC, and yes, she was a Jazz/Studio guitarist first and filled in on bass for a studio date and never looked back. I can't remember the pick she was using as she was playing guitar during our lessons.
 
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#94
nibbles said:
Heya, I'm looking to buy my first bass and am in a bit of a pickle.

I have smallish hands and am left handed, so there are limited options for me.

I really like the sound of Hofners, as one of my favourite genres is psych rock and they work really well there. From Beatles to Tame Impala. The Hofner, as a small, short scale bass, is also one I can play very well with.

I also really like Motown/Soul type music, where there's a danceable groove to it.

For this, I'd expect to choose a P-Bass, which seems to be the most common bass for these musicians, people like James Jamerson etc. It seems to be THE classic sound.

A P-Bass is obviously a regular, larger size bass so my expectation is it will feel difficult with my hands.

I was wondering, given the Hofner is more to my preferred size, if I could get close to the P-Bass sound with the Hofner. From researching online the general opinion seems to be heck no!

But, I wanted to re-ask it here because from what I can see, the Jamerson sound, apart from his amazing ability of course!, seems to come from a P-Bass, DI'd, with labella flats and often with a foam mute.

From listening, this gives it a nice thump...which reminds me of a Hofner. Admittedly I am definitely an amateur with bass stuff, learning as I go along, so I am assuming I'm still wrong.

But I was wondering if anyone felt it was outrageous to think that for that sort of motown/soul sound, actually the Hofner might be alright? (So I can take advantage of the short scale)

Or, would you suggest that no actually the P-Bass is still the one to go for, even if it'll take some stretching with my hands!

Plus - if you'd suggest the P-Bass, then is there a level of quality that is suggested one go for? As in, is Squier/Fender Player alright, or would you suggest levelling up etc? I'm looking for something that will last a long time.

Also, quite reminder that I am left handed so I need something that I can get as a leftie. IE I did think about a Mustang bass but they don't do them as lefties unfortunately!

Thank you for any thoughts!
Click to expand...
Rod Ellicott of Cold Blood:

"Rod recorded the first Cold Blood LP,
dripping with soul and funk, on a Hofner Beatle Bass run directly to the board, and he played it with a thumb-pick that he held like a flat pick. After the first album, he played with his fingers. That transition was made easier because Rod had previously played an upright bass before switching to electric bass."

Cold Blood Archives | Know Your Bass Player



:)
 
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#95
Cave Puppy said:
She has above average sized hands for a woman of her stature, IIRC, and yes, she was a Jazz/Studio guitarist first and filled in on bass for a studio date and never looked back. I can't remember the pick she was using as she was playing guitar during our lessons.
Click to expand...
She once sent me some of her picks. Just heavy plastic picks, about the same as a Fender Extra Heavy. I definitely wouldn't think she was using a felt pick from her sound and playing. They're usually really thick and not really conducive to fast picking with the kind of definition and attack she gets.
 
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#96
bassfiddlesteve said:
I use the foam mute live and it sounds great in the right context. Not muddy, but more percussive and less sustain. Great for walking bass or older blues and R&B. I also used this set up in the Steely Dan tribute band I used to play with (I miss that band).

- Steve
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I keep one jazz bass loaded up with a foam mute under the bridge cover. It’s very punchy and clear, not muddy at all.
 
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#97
GWGuitar said:
I keep one jazz bass loaded up with a foam mute under the bridge cover. It’s very punchy and clear, not muddy at all.
Click to expand...
It is often the remedy for mud. I was in a rehearsal studio just last night, 6 piece band playing roots music with lots of nuance and detail, and the low end bleed from the crazy loud metal band door was creating all kinds of wild harmonic crap in our room. I don't normally use a foam mute with this band, but I slapped one in and it was super helpful for us to at least make some distinction in the low end!
 
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