Can anyone recommend a decent analog channel strip?

[afromoose]

I mean like a single channel which is all analog until the end, when it gets converted to digital and sent out. It doesn't need to have a digital converter though.

I'm doing vocal overdubs at the moment and want something simple that can be set up anywhere and would clip like a digital system.

 

[LittleGiant]

check out the joe meek or the tf-pro channel strips, sound great, and have optical compressers. good value too.

Old ones are as good as the new ones so check out ebay

 

[bongomania]

I mean like a single channel which is all analog until the end, when it gets converted to digital and sent out. It doesn't need to have a digital converter though.

I'm doing vocal overdubs at the moment and want something simple that can be set up anywhere and would clip like a digital system.

Errr.... you mean would not clip like a digital system?

There are loads of good and great ones out there. I agree with the two suggested above; also ART, Ashly, Symetrix, Rane, Presonus, Summit, Avalon, Toft.... It all depends on the specific features you want, the tone you're after, and your realistic budget.

 

[Charling]

I'm unsure of what you mean by 'clip like a digital system' as well! The digital part is the converter + , and that will still clip in the same way whether you are using a seperate channel strip or not! If you mean clippping as in a channel strip plug-in clipping inside the box then thats just a case of turning down of course!

However, if you are WANTING clipping but want it to happen analog for the more musical sound then I understand what you mean, but would imagine you are going for some crunchy distorted rock vox!

anyway, some more questions, what features do you need? I would imagine mic pre, compressor and eq is a good start. what are you converting to digital with? If its not the channel strip (some have a digi out option card) then you will need to bring your soundcard with you as well of course!

and most importantly, what's your budget? that focus' the list considerably, you can spend thousands on a channel strip or get some real great sounding bargains!

 

[afromoose]

Hi

Yeah sorry! That should read 'not clip' like a digital system. The aim is to get something that sounds good, is fairly cheap (cheaper the better really) but we don't have to worry about driving the channel a little by accident for fear of hearing that disgusting digital clip and ruining all our takes.

It's basically to save time for us - doesn't have to be incredible, but a good sounding one would be better obviously!

Thanks! I'll check out those recommendations

 

[EricF]

As long as you set your levels properly, clipping shouldn't be a concern. It's pretty simple. If you're in danger of clipping, you're recording too hot.

"Fairly cheap" is relative. To some, $1500 is cheap. To others, it's $100 or less. A dollar-figure budget is going to help us help you a lot easier.

For what I consider "cheap", here's a suggestion...
For about $300, the ART Pro Channel is a pretty reasonable unit (plan on a tube upgrade, however).

 

[Charling]

Hi

Yeah sorry! That should read 'not clip' like a digital system. The aim is to get something that sounds good, is fairly cheap (cheaper the better really) but we don't have to worry about driving the channel a little by accident for fear of hearing that disgusting digital clip and ruining all our takes.

It's basically to save time for us - doesn't have to be incredible, but a good sounding one would be better obviously!

Thanks! I'll check out those recommendations

cool cool, but you're not recording to analog tape or anything like that are you? If you are not then the new system (including a channel strip) will be just as likely to clip as any other! the only digital portions of a setup is from the A/D converter onwards, its the converter that clips, and if you are recording to a computer you will always need one of them!

If you turn up the volume of the output of a channel strip, go too high during a take etc, then the converter will clip same as ever. `even when you buy a cheap soundcard with built in pres the pre's are analog! They can theoretically overdrive in an analog way too, the trouble is that they are normally sold with A/D's in the same box, and are calibrated so the preamp and a/d clip at the same time, or the a/d clips first.

If you have a separate analog pre/channel strip there is the option of turning your a/d to accept a slightly higher level signals than the pre amp will give out when its distorting, giving you some kind of 'headroom', the trouble is VERY few interfaces have a 'trim' on the A/D, its a very rare feature unfortunatly!

If clipping in the digital realm is a problem then buying a channel strip won't help you, you just need to learn to set gains lower etc! though having a better A/D and recording at a higher bit depth may well help! As will having a compressor to tame the peaks, but although compression on the way in is very standard amongst professionals its something that requires a certain amount of skill and confidence!

 

[fretlessrock]

Sounds like you really need a comp/limiter if clipping is a problem and you don't want to figure out how to turn down the level hitting the converter. It really doesn't matter if it is analog or not. The converter has X dynamic range. Not knowing how to work within it is ruining your takes, not your gear. A compressor will reduce the dynamic range of the source making it less likely that you will overload the converter, but if you are still recording too hot, it won't help. It will happen less often, maybe, but it won't go away.

 

[Charling]

Sounds like you really need a comp/limiter if clipping is a problem and you don't want to figure out how to turn down the level hitting the converter. It really doesn't matter if it is analog or not. The converter has X dynamic range. Not knowing how to work within it is ruining your takes, not your gear. A compressor will reduce the dynamic range of the source making it less likely that you will overload the converter, but if you are still recording too hot, it won't help. It will happen less often, maybe, but it won't go away.

well put, and compression on the way in can lead to problems later if you are not confident with the settings you choose as well! A much better option is learning how to set your gain structure.

 

[bongomania]

Agreed--it just depends on your specific application. For example, if you are recording scratch tracks for practice and re-writes, then compress away! It will save you time and trouble. But if you are recording something for commercial release, or even a demo that will be heard by a label, then you want to do any compression in post-production if possible.

Another option is a peak limiter, which can be either analog or a plugin in your DAW. With digital, the hardware ones I've tried haven't been any good, but I haven't tried top-level ones, only budget-studio ones. You can get better digital limiting from some of the plugins out there. With analog, for vocals there are plenty of workable options (in hardware form of course).

The idea with a peak limiter is when it's set properly, your signal is not touched until it's about to hit the ceiling, and then it gets limited at that ceiling. It's still something I'd reserve for non-commercial productions, practice etc., but it leaves you more dynamic range to work with in post-production than you'd have by compressing more of the signal.

At a low budget, there aren't that many channel strips with effective non-glitchy peak limiting. That said, there's an Ashly in the Amps FS forum that might be perfect for your application...

 

[afromoose]

Okay, so what does 'driving a desk' mean? What part of the signal chain is overdriving? I have a friend that used to work at Genetic and he said that they used to 'drive' the analogue desk to get a cool sound.

 

[EricF]

He was referring to overdriving the preamps on the desk (mixing board). With quality preamps, this often sounds good (for some sources).

You need to keep in mind that analog recording is a different beast than digital recording, and requires different techniques. In the analog world, it was common practice to record hot in order to get a good signal to tape. That method isn't necessary with digital recording, and will usually only lead to problems.

It sounds to me like some self-education on proper recording techniques would do you a lot of good.

 

[bongomania]

+1 on alladat. The type of analog desk driving he was talking about is really not viable for a typical home studio on a low budget. It takes audio transformers, tape, and any number of other components that happen to overdrive really well, and which are not found in budget channel strips.

I do know that some old '80s cassette multitrack recorders happen to saturate pretty nicely, so you might try a few of those to find one that (a) works, and (b) sounds good.

Also if you wanted to spend more money, there are some high-end channel strips that are designed to saturate beautifully--but we're talking $1K to $4K or more.

 

[Charling]

More +1's from me, and a few other things..

Your friend could also have been referring to driving the master bus of the desk, when the main outs are hitting just below the max-before-full-overload area on the master vu's you can get a great sort of saturation over a mix, kind of like mastering distortion It works well with older rock/indie anything that can be helped by a bit of grunge to stick things together. However, its dangerous territory up there, with distortion imminent and its not something to try without knowing exactly what you are doing! It's also not something to try with your average Mackie or Soundcraft, either (old soundcraft.. maybe) it requires a very well made desk for the result to be musical.

As bongomania mentioned home recording pre's like the inbuilt pre's on an interface) etc are not really going to be all that cool when distorting, even though it is an analog distortion, but it CAN be put to good use as a crazy nasty effect, only for the sort of music that benefits from that kind of harsh trashy sound. Heck even digital clipping has been used musically in SOME tracks, but its a VERY niche effect!

I would REALLY recommend holding out untill you can get good sounds with what you have got. If you can't make a simple interface and a 57 sound pretty ok, and be confident of being able to avoid clipping on the way into the computer, then its not time to make the step, if you were doing things the slow-but-sensible way that is!

 

[afromoose]

Hey thanks for all the advice

I'm okay with getting signals that are well below the red when recording at home - the situation we're in is doing vocal overdubs in a studio late at night. Often the other studio users (bands etc) have left everything in a mess, or some stuff unplugged etc, so we have to rush to get everything routed around and plugged in blah blah, and sometimes there's something clipping and we can't track it down, as we're not overly familiar with the studio.

What we wanted to do was bypass the main desk and all the compressors etc and go through a single channel strip, so we know we can plug in, set levels, and go, rather than having to troubleshoot for the first half hour or hour or whatever. Also so have some flexibility in terms of location.

That ART channel strip looks good I'll check it out.

 

[Ronan]

You have not really told us about your budget or what kind of sounds you are into.

If you are trying to keep the budget in check and not really sure what kind of sounds you are into, I strongly recommend checking out the True Systems P-Solo mic pre. It is an excellent sounding clean mic pre that will run you about $500usd.

One more vote here for keeping your levels conservative when recording into a DAW and using proper gain staging and not compression to do it.