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Can Fender Afford?
- Thread starter JAUQO III-X
- Start date
HAHA! And I thought I'd get berated for going too far.
I'm used to being berated.
(See Signature and Registration status) I'm more into modern looks and sound. Although, more recently, I've grown to enjoy the look of the J bass. I'd like to find one that matched some of the specs that I want. It would have to be a custom job, though.
I'd really like to know how their brainstorming sessions go. Maybe something akin to this portrayal of Dreamworks?
Classic!!!
Think of it this way:
For every 10 American Std. bass they sell - they sell 100 MIM's
For every 10 MIM's - they sell 100 Squiers to beginners...
Thats reason enough to keep them going if you ask me
For every 10 American Std. bass they sell - they sell 100 MIM's
For every 10 MIM's - they sell 100 Squiers to beginners...
Thats reason enough to keep them going if you ask me
I don't know how anyone could answer that question without in-depth knowledge of sales and margins/profitability of each different line, in context of each market they are sold in.
From a strictly marketing perspective it would be mad to leave that segment of the market to the competition, especially with it's increasingly high reputation and status as introductory feeder to higher end Fender product lines, as previously mentioned.
From a strictly marketing perspective it would be mad to leave that segment of the market to the competition, especially with it's increasingly high reputation and status as introductory feeder to higher end Fender product lines, as previously mentioned.
I don't see why you would even ask that. Especially given the huge increase in popularity of Squier guitars and basses with professional level musicians. The CV and VM series are great instruments, and incredibly popular, it would make no sense at all for them to discontinue the squier line. I don't see them any series in the Fender line, there's tons of profit and different markets for all the lines that they have out right now, be it the squiers, the MIM fenders (which makes up a HUGE part of fender's business if you look at how many series are made there) and the CIJ lines. Every series that Fender has out right now has it's supporters and fans.
I don't think Fender would keep a product in their line if it wasn't making money for them. Look at the models that have come and gone through the years. It's all about what's profitable. So if they stopped selling Squiers, they'd still be making money on the MIA, MIJ and MIM lines, just less money than they were before. And, who in the world wants to make less money?
What? Their factory down there is rather large, and handles their string making operation, as well as a lot of their amp production. The MIM instruments are still very popular and profitable, and are still considered a step above the best of the Squier line as far as most of the general instrument buying public is concerned. Besides, the MIM instruments sport the Fender brand, and they haven't hurt it any. I know not everyone feels that way, and it's not to say that some of the higher end Squier stuff doesn't give the MIM line a good run for the money. As long as Fender keeps making money with their Squier line of products, they will keep on offering the line, no matter where they have to source the production out to. Right now, the only thing that would put an end to Fender's Mexican production, would be a collapse of the Mexican government followed by a horrible civil war between a multitude of political factions and drug cartels, that could shut down production, or having a new regime take everything over in a wave of mass economic nationalization.
Fender seems to be doing fine. It doesn't appear they need to redefine themselves, or are in any kind of marketing crisis whatsoever. They are probably the biggest seller in the low end, as well as the high end. If they lose a sale to Sadowsky or whoever, they're still outselling them by a huge margin.
The comparison to Ric doesn't hold up too far, however. Ric took a different philosophical approach to design and manufacturing. Ric doesn't have an import or budget line. Everything made in the USA by skilled workers. Even their selection of models is quite limited. They have a back order of 2 years to the dealers, and have no plans of expanding. It's just about the opposite of Fender in almost every way.
The comparison to Ric doesn't hold up too far, however. Ric took a different philosophical approach to design and manufacturing. Ric doesn't have an import or budget line. Everything made in the USA by skilled workers. Even their selection of models is quite limited. They have a back order of 2 years to the dealers, and have no plans of expanding. It's just about the opposite of Fender in almost every way.
Yeah, but I'd take the CV Jazz Bass over any MIM Standard Fender I've played through the years...
I don't know precisely how this works, but as for the Squier line of instruments... aren't they simply outsourced to an existing instrument manufacturing company overseas? Or does Fender actually have a factory of their own in Asia?
I supposed it was like G&L hiring CORT to build lower-priced instruments to their specs that they could brand and sell here. I'm wondering if that's the case with Squier?
If they're simply contracted to another company, it seems like a no-brainer to keep doing that, especially if there's minimal "hard" costs like their own manufacturing plants and machinery to maintain. They're maximizing the brand with minimal 'hard" exposure.
I supposed it was like G&L hiring CORT to build lower-priced instruments to their specs that they could brand and sell here. I'm wondering if that's the case with Squier?
If they're simply contracted to another company, it seems like a no-brainer to keep doing that, especially if there's minimal "hard" costs like their own manufacturing plants and machinery to maintain. They're maximizing the brand with minimal 'hard" exposure.
I would too. Like I said in my post, some of the higher end Squier stuff gives some of the Mexican line a good run for the money. Heck, some of the high end Squiers even exceed the MIM Standards in some cases of comparison. Fender has stepped up their game with the Squier brand. When it comes to running up higher in the line of the MIM offerings, one has to consider if the extra money spent on them is worth it for what you get, and that's always an individual choice. With that question in mind, would you still prefer the CV over an MIM Road Worn, or one of the Classic series J-Basses if you had a choice between the two?
My thought is that it is because TalkBass is one of the better sources of free market research and product brainstorming on the net.
Engine207
Losing faith in humanity...one call at a time.
No...it's smart marketing for them to separate their quality/price lines with different brands.
Take Ibanez. There's a thread running around here about Ibby Stigma. Basically, those of us old farts who started plating in the late 70s will forever (I've since gotten over it) associate Ibanez with cheap copy stuff that we had to buy, because we couldn't afford a Fender or Gibson or whatever (those were pre-Squier days).
When they became a manufacturer of originals, they couldn't seem to shake that "stigma" for many years...until a new generation grew up that didn't know Ibanez's history. They make some really excellent instruments, but Gios have the same name on the headstock as SR Prestige and BTB basses.
Fender (Squier) and Gibson (Epiphone) understand that they can participate in the beginner/intermediate market...and do so well, without compromising their brand identity for upper-price instruments.
Take Ibanez. There's a thread running around here about Ibby Stigma. Basically, those of us old farts who started plating in the late 70s will forever (I've since gotten over it) associate Ibanez with cheap copy stuff that we had to buy, because we couldn't afford a Fender or Gibson or whatever (those were pre-Squier days).
When they became a manufacturer of originals, they couldn't seem to shake that "stigma" for many years...until a new generation grew up that didn't know Ibanez's history. They make some really excellent instruments, but Gios have the same name on the headstock as SR Prestige and BTB basses.
Fender (Squier) and Gibson (Epiphone) understand that they can participate in the beginner/intermediate market...and do so well, without compromising their brand identity for upper-price instruments.
As crazy as it can be, it's a tough question...
I did like the MIM Road Worn and the MIM 70's when I tried them out, but that my jaw really dropped first time I had a CV Jazz in my hands. Playing it and looking at the price tag makes your brain hurt.
I remember there was a bunch of Fenders in the store and the CV was the second best I played that day, first one being a Custom Shop '64.
So, to answer your question, both costing the same, I'd probably go with a MIM 70's because I really dig the looks. Considering the price, the CV is simply a no-brainer. Best deal out there today IMO.
Assuming they're making a net profit off of the Squier lineup, and that's a fairly safe assumption since it has been around for so long, the only reason to kill off Squier is if it's eating into the sale of the higher priced instruments. Fender is a privately held company so we're all guessing at the profitability of the Squier line. If I were to bet twenty bucks, I'd bet that Squier is here to stay. Prices could rise, but they're here to stay.
why would they want to? - they're selling well..a lot of younger players can afford them.
so can a lot of older players. I don't own one - but the ones I've played - played pretty nice
so can a lot of older players. I don't own one - but the ones I've played - played pretty nice
Would Fender survive? Of course they would, they're one of the largest musical companies in the world (look at all their other brands) second only to Peavey I think. But why get rid of Squier? It's profitable and gets players into the Fender family early (I'm thinking beginners here) with them probably upgrading to the 'real thing' at a later date.
