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Can I make my rig louder without a new head?

#41
::Saint:: said:
Wrong according to whom? I DIDN'T SEE YOUR SCIENTIFIC CREDENTIALS SIR!
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Sorry mate, bass waves may travel better than high freq waves, however all sound gets 6dB softer ever time you double your distance. So from 1ft-2ft you lose 6db, from 10ft-20ft you lose 6db, etc...etc..

My credentials are that I am omnipotent. If you don't believe me then you are a communist and a sinner.
 
#44
::Saint:: said:
Actually its a well known fact of physics that bass waves get larger as they travel, which means that bass actually sounds louder the farther away you are from the source in a lot of cases.
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That's an interesting idea, can you prove it? I had one professional soundman tell me that bass frequencies went sub-sonic until a full wavelength from the speaker. I don't know what kind of training he had, but that's not true. Bill Fitzmaurice's example of headphones are a great way to demonstrate that the truth of that.

I do know that bass travels farther and through thicker materials than higher frequencies, so it may appear louder than the other sounds the farther away you are.
 
#46
PSPookie said:
Booooo! No Fairness!

Fight! Fight! Fight!

:hyper: :D :p :D :hyper:
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Arr, matey...let's get it on! :bassist:
Piratewithparrot.gif

.....Where's me frickin' parrot??

OtterOnBass said:
I do know that bass travels farther and through thicker materials than higher frequencies, so it may appear louder than the other sounds the farther away you are.
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I'm right on the edge of my knowledge base here, but I'll give it a try....

Bass sound waves are considerably larger in size than those of higher frequencies, and therefore it's much harder for objects or even walls to damp out the sound. Attempted example: a 100 HZ bass sound wave can cause a wall to vibrate and pass the sound through, while a 10,000 HZ sound will often be damped by that same wall.

I KNOW some kind person will correct any mis-statements in that comment.....;)
 
#48
JoshuaTSP said:
Throw the cab in a corner. boom. louder.
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Sounds louder, but is not actually louder. The corner has walls which reflect sound waves, so you're hearing sound reflected off three surfaces (floor and both side walls) as opposed to just the floor. Although the acoustic effect might indeed help, it's not always practical to place a bass cab in a corner.
 
#50
JoshuaTSP said:
...but technically I'm right. :p
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Perceptually / acoustically, you're right.

In terms of actual sound volume generated by the cab, no change.

But in a practical sense, you're on target! One never knows when moving a cab into a corner - or moving it out of one - might really improve the sound in a performing area. Well worth knowing.
 
#51
greenboy said:
The drivers in the Carvin cabs are just as sensitive per driver as ones in the majority of other cabs around, and probably with the SVT drivers there is no notable difference either.

The major difference is that a given amount of output signal into more drivers will be louder.
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I know that the published specs can be misleading, but I remember comparing the specs of the Carvin Red Line 2x10 that I had to other 2x10s and the Carvin having a noticeably lower efficiency rating. I can't find the specs for it online anymore- but having compared directly my cabinets to other similar cabs (even before the Ampeg 8x10), I found a couple comparable 2x10s and 1x15s that were noticeably louder with the same amplifiers (at the time, an SVT-3 and an SVT-4 Pro). This included all the current Ampeg Classic Series, as well as the earliest Markbass cabinets available in Guitar Center (although at the time I couldn't afford any of these new, while the Carvin cabs were very decently priced). The 8x10 did have a significantly higher speaker surface area than the 1x15 and 2x10 cabs that I was using though, so you are correct in that reasoning. I should also add that I demoed another bassists Carvin Red Line 8x10 next to my old Ampeg 8x10, and the Ampeg blew it out of the water volume-wise (same drivers as the 2x10). The Carvin sounded a little deeper to the point of being muddy in the low end, but couldn't keep up at all in sheer volume. And my Bergantino NV610, with 2 less speakers, is perceptively as loud or louder than that Ampeg 8x10 that it replaced...

Anyway- my point is that the original poster ought to demo some other cabinets with the open mind that he may need to axe the Carvin completely to get the volume he needs (I definitely did)...

Karl
 
#56
OtterOnBass said:
That's an interesting idea, can you prove it? I had one professional soundman tell me that bass frequencies went sub-sonic until a full wavelength from the speaker. I don't know what kind of training he had, but that's not true. Bill Fitzmaurice's example of headphones are a great way to demonstrate that the truth of that.
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Actually the 55'-wide headphones was my example - I used it on a mailing list and other forums long before I imported it to tb (yes, these types of audio myth debates never get entirely go away and have been around forever!); Bill just borrowed it ; }

* * *

As for some of the goofy stuff that's been posted:

Bass wavelengths drop off to the inverse square law, just like any other frequencies do. But in a room they are also more obviously affected by reinforcement and cancellation from reflections arriving either fully or partially in or out of phase relative to wavelength at any given listening position, and when the reflections sum with wave from the direct source they can sum a lot louder in some positions than others, and conversely they are diminishing energy at others.

So it is entirely possible that a given frequency could be louder at a position further away than they are near the speaker - in spite of inverse SPL dropoff.But it's just as possible that it could happen closer at a given frequency. All this relates to postioning of source, position of measurement, and room dimensions.

Also, a speaker DOES gain acoustic coupling in a corner or by a wall, and it is INDEED louder in the affected frequency range than one that is not corner/wall-loaded. For all practical purposes this is a way to get free SPL.
 
#58
::Saint:: said:
So by putting my amp up against a wall or in a corner I'm getting free Watts? That sounds like some kind of Voodoo if you ask me! Would this affect a guitar in the same way?
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Not free watts, free SPL. I think the rule is that, if the quarter-wavelength of a frequency is less than or equal to the distance from the source to a non-absorbent surface, you get a 3db boost at that frequency. The science involves reflections that reinforce instead of cancelling, because of the small phase difference involved. You're not going to notice the coupling to the floor, because you almost always have that, but if you stick it in a corner, you get a 6dB boost at a fairly wide band because of the two walls the cab's now coupled to.
 

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