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Can I still play aggressively on flats?
- Thread starter lilbassboi
- Start date
(Off topic, sorry, but your churches seem way more fun than ours in France. Best case scenario we have organ and bad singing, never a bass guitar)
@lilbassboi I think what your dad is trying to explain may be responsiveness. I've played on LaBella DTF and their LTF. I find the regular DTF to sound amazing. But the LTF sound more.... musical? I believe this is because of the lower tension. If a string has lower tension (or more flexibility), then it will travel through the area sensed by the pickups differently. This is only part of why flats and rounds sound different. So for me, I prefer LaBella's LTF as I seem to have more responsiveness and dynamics with them. That's not to say you cannot do it on any string. I've just noticed with lower tension comes more dynamic range - at least for my fingers. I believe this is why so many players swear by TI flats as they are low tension flats. I'm assuming LaBella's LTF are their answer for TI's.
Tapewounds are also a thing. I've been able to get a unique sound out of mine that's it's own version of aggressive, but since they're rounds wrapped in nylon tape... the pick does not hit the string the same, so it sounds softer somehow. Which may not be your thing. They sound kinda like old rounds to me. For reference I'm using labella's black tapes which are mellow. Their white tapes sound almost like rounds, but feel smooth.
This should also explain some of the other answers. Consider how it travels through the magnetic field, and that should help. The more this is understood, the quicker you'll be able to swap to the string type needed.
Tapewounds are also a thing. I've been able to get a unique sound out of mine that's it's own version of aggressive, but since they're rounds wrapped in nylon tape... the pick does not hit the string the same, so it sounds softer somehow. Which may not be your thing. They sound kinda like old rounds to me. For reference I'm using labella's black tapes which are mellow. Their white tapes sound almost like rounds, but feel smooth.
This should also explain some of the other answers. Consider how it travels through the magnetic field, and that should help. The more this is understood, the quicker you'll be able to swap to the string type needed.
Flats can absolutely be played in an aggressive manner. Digging in with your fingers or using a heavy picking hand, either way will get that done.
I think what your dad means by flats not being aggressive is that they lose a lot of the overtones that roundwound strings have once they're broken in. There is a lot less treble to the sound of broken in flatwounds which is what gives the "warmth" you seek - a strong fundamental without a lot of overtones layered on top. This brightness/crispness that you get from roundwounds or very new flats is what a lot of people associate with harder rock music styles, hence the association with aggressive sounds.
There are already a number of posts here referencing Steve Harris, with all due respect I think this is not a useful comparison to your situation. Steve changes his strings very frequently so they're always new and crisp sounding. That plus his technique means you are not likely to achieve a similar sound with your bass, particularly as you are looking to save money and new flats get very pricey. They are cost effective in the long run though if you keep them on for many years, as a lot of players who aren't named Steve Harris do.
I actually played a PJ bass with flatwounds in my hard rock band for a while. Some things you can do that will boost your tonal "aggression":
- As you suggested yourself, mixing in the bridge pickup adds some brightness to the sound compared to a straight up P bass with flats tone.
- EQ on your amp and/or preamp if you have one. You will want to emphasize mids and treble, and if you have a knob/button that says something like presence, bite, ultra high, consider using that to boost the upper frequencies.
- Dirt is your friend when it comes to aggressive sounds. I don't know exactly what your church is looking for but I will hazard a guess that full blown distortion or fuzz is probably too far. If you have a way to add a bit of tubey overdrive to your sound though, that shouldn't sound too out of place and it really complements flatwound strings. There are MANY options for preamps and overdrive so I won't get into that here, that's a question for a separate post. You will likely find this question already answered in previous posts to the pedals and effects forum, start by searching there if you want to know more.
- Your choice of strings matters. Not all flatwounds are created equal; the classic flats sound that you'd hear on something like a Motown or other older soul/R&B comes from very smooth stainless steel strings. LaBella Deep Talkin' Flats and GHS Precision Flats are both good examples of this. Very warm, but if you want to bring in the brightness to get what most people think of as an aggressive sound you'll struggle a bit. On the other end of the spectrum, D'Addario Chromes and Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats are much brighter sounding flatwound strings. They will still mellow out as they break in but won't get quite so buttery smooth as the LaBellas do. They also won't feel quite as smooth to the touch. Brighter still are some strings that fall into the "half round" category. There are "groundwound" strings that start out as normal rounds but are then ground down to a smooth surface, and then there are compression or pressure wound strings that use an outer wrap that's neither perfectly round nor flat but pressed into a sort of smushed oval shape on the cross section. These won't really sound like flatwounds, though they are warmer than rounds. However they also need to be changed like rounds do so if you want something that will stay on your bass a long time, these aren't the ones for you.
Ultimately in think you can achieve your goal of a string that gives you a warm sound but still allows for some aggression when you want to call on it, and (perhaps more importantly) gives you a chance to prove your dad wrong.
I think what your dad means by flats not being aggressive is that they lose a lot of the overtones that roundwound strings have once they're broken in. There is a lot less treble to the sound of broken in flatwounds which is what gives the "warmth" you seek - a strong fundamental without a lot of overtones layered on top. This brightness/crispness that you get from roundwounds or very new flats is what a lot of people associate with harder rock music styles, hence the association with aggressive sounds.
There are already a number of posts here referencing Steve Harris, with all due respect I think this is not a useful comparison to your situation. Steve changes his strings very frequently so they're always new and crisp sounding. That plus his technique means you are not likely to achieve a similar sound with your bass, particularly as you are looking to save money and new flats get very pricey. They are cost effective in the long run though if you keep them on for many years, as a lot of players who aren't named Steve Harris do.
I actually played a PJ bass with flatwounds in my hard rock band for a while. Some things you can do that will boost your tonal "aggression":
- As you suggested yourself, mixing in the bridge pickup adds some brightness to the sound compared to a straight up P bass with flats tone.
- EQ on your amp and/or preamp if you have one. You will want to emphasize mids and treble, and if you have a knob/button that says something like presence, bite, ultra high, consider using that to boost the upper frequencies.
- Dirt is your friend when it comes to aggressive sounds. I don't know exactly what your church is looking for but I will hazard a guess that full blown distortion or fuzz is probably too far. If you have a way to add a bit of tubey overdrive to your sound though, that shouldn't sound too out of place and it really complements flatwound strings. There are MANY options for preamps and overdrive so I won't get into that here, that's a question for a separate post. You will likely find this question already answered in previous posts to the pedals and effects forum, start by searching there if you want to know more.
- Your choice of strings matters. Not all flatwounds are created equal; the classic flats sound that you'd hear on something like a Motown or other older soul/R&B comes from very smooth stainless steel strings. LaBella Deep Talkin' Flats and GHS Precision Flats are both good examples of this. Very warm, but if you want to bring in the brightness to get what most people think of as an aggressive sound you'll struggle a bit. On the other end of the spectrum, D'Addario Chromes and Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats are much brighter sounding flatwound strings. They will still mellow out as they break in but won't get quite so buttery smooth as the LaBellas do. They also won't feel quite as smooth to the touch. Brighter still are some strings that fall into the "half round" category. There are "groundwound" strings that start out as normal rounds but are then ground down to a smooth surface, and then there are compression or pressure wound strings that use an outer wrap that's neither perfectly round nor flat but pressed into a sort of smushed oval shape on the cross section. These won't really sound like flatwounds, though they are warmer than rounds. However they also need to be changed like rounds do so if you want something that will stay on your bass a long time, these aren't the ones for you.
Ultimately in think you can achieve your goal of a string that gives you a warm sound but still allows for some aggression when you want to call on it, and (perhaps more importantly) gives you a chance to prove your dad wrong.
This is perfectly describing (at least IME) what flats do best. You may even want to think about adding a foam mute at the bridge to increase "thump" (this will cut your sustain as well, so skip it if you want as much sustain as possible).
My suggestion would be GHS Precision Flats as they come out of the package with a lot of warm thump, needing less time to "break in" compared to other flats I've used. If you're playing frequently, it'll happen with any flats, but there's less waiting IME with the GHS Precision Flats.
You can also keep things warmer by rolling off the tone knob on your bass until you like how it sounds in the mix (emphasis on "in the mix", as in adjusting while playing with the band). Also, don't be afraid to use your amp's EQ or ask for some adjustments at the mixing board. For this, I'd suggest trying to cut highs before you try boosting bass and mids. A little can go a long way
D
Like others have said you can PLAY aggressively on flats but they won't SOUND as aggressive/bright like roundwounds.
All the references to Steve Harris are rather pointless unless the OP had been asking specifically about Rotosound flats. Roto flats are in a category of their own, totally different to any other flats. Bringing them into a discussion of flats in general makes no sense to me. Roto flats are in many ways closer to roundwounds that to any other flats. The most similar strings to Roto flats that I can think of are probably GHS Pressurewounds.
All the references to Steve Harris are rather pointless unless the OP had been asking specifically about Rotosound flats. Roto flats are in a category of their own, totally different to any other flats. Bringing them into a discussion of flats in general makes no sense to me. Roto flats are in many ways closer to roundwounds that to any other flats. The most similar strings to Roto flats that I can think of are probably GHS Pressurewounds.
Really wondering why nobody has come up with this so far: Unless you’ve got an active bass, you can only play passive-aggressive
As far as I know Geezer plays on roundwound strings but he lets them break in/go dead which gives them a thumpy flatwound like tone.
I’d be willing to be a lot that the first three Sabbath albums were recorded with flats, and possibly even the same set of flats.
They very well could be. I can't find any clear information on exactly what strings he was playing at the time, but here's a snippet from an interview he did for MusicRadar:
Your bass sound was different after Sabbath’s debut album in 1970. What was going on?
“I probably changed the strings on my bass! On the debut album I was too poor to buy new strings, so they were always, like, 10 months old. I’d only replace them if they broke, so that’s what gave the record that dull, flat thud sound.”
This was just a couple of years after Rotosound rounds became popular in the British rock scene, so it's hard to say for sure what he would have been using at the time. But he does attribute his dull thuddy sound to the age of the strings rather than the construction, which suggests roundwounds. I really am just guessing at this point though.
Now though (since 2000 at least) he uses DR Black Beauties because they don't give him finger blisters.
