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Can I use this?
- Thread starter SweMan574
- Start date
Unfortunately, that is not much help 
Some money and loud, is not a lot to go on. What is some money for you may be a lot/little for other people, but judging by the equipment you mentioned, I am guessing cheap is the aim. It would also be helpful to know what kind of music you are planning on playing.
"Loud" is also open to interpretation. What is loud in a small room (i.e: bedroom, living room) will be medium loud in a larger practice space, quiet in a bar situation, and next to silent in an open air or large stage situation. I will guess (please specify if this is not the case) that you are looking for something that is loud in a small to medium sized practice space, and just enogh to do a small gig or Jam.
Based on the info you shared, which is you on bass and singing, but I am guessing you will at least have some other intrument and maybe a drummer. You have two ways of doing this. Either you get an amp+cab (or combo) for your bass, and then a small PA for just vocals or you can go for a larger PA set up (with a subwoofer) and run your bass via DI into the PA system. Which is better? That depends on the equipment you choose. You will need a better PA system to handle your bass if you want to go that way, but you would save on the bass amp and cab (or combo). If you get a seperate amp+cab for your bass, then you only need a smaller PA to deal with vocals, and you could also skip the sub.
The first option would be to buy used, for the same price as cheap new equipment, you could get better (and louder) used gear. Maybe check your local second hand sites for used PA systems, and report back with what you have found in your budget.
The second option is new. Thomann has some good things at excellent prices (for Europe), but nothing is free.
Let's say you want to go for a bass amp + cab plus a small PA system you would need:
A bass amp and cab (or combo): you mentioned the HB-40B in your first post. This is not a loud combo, unless you are playing in a very small bedroom. For a small to medium practice room, I would recommend a minimum of something like a Fender Rumble 100 or a Hartke A 100. Both of these are 3 times the price of the HB-40B. You may be better looking at something like the Harley Benton BB115T or even the Ashdown Toneman 115 Deep (only 20€ more). With these cabs you would also need an amp, but for 149€ you can get a Behringer Ultrabass BXD3000H, which in total would work out not much more than the combo, and would be louder, and let you add an extra cab if you need to at a later date. To go with this set up, you do not need a DI, but if you did get a DI, you could also look at normal PA amps to use with the cab. (Too many different options to list).
PA System: As you said you want to use an SM58 (great choice) you either need a small mixer to run this through, or you can look at some of the PA systems that already include Mic inputs etc. Something like "the box PA110 A Bundle" for 325€ would give you the mic inputs etc and would probably be enough to run just vocals through to keep up with the bass cabs I mentioned. The mixer you mentioned was the Xenyx USB, this would allow you to connect things to your PC. So you could record the vocals, and even the bass if you plug it in to the mixer from a DI.
If you would rather go for a larger PA system that would be capable of allowing you to skip the bass amp + cab, and go direct into the PA, then you need a DI and a larger PA system with a Subwoofer. This will probably cost you more than the previous set up, but it is possible. The louder you want to go, the more you will need to spend (as a general rule, some deals are pretty good), and the more quality you want, the more you need to spend (also a general rule).
All of this is just an idea, by no means can I say this is the best set up for your situation, as I have no idea what your situation is, I guess I just had some free time to type random ideas
Personally, when I do solo or duo stuff, where I do vocals, keyboard, bass, and PC based loops etc. my set up is:
2x 1000W Subwoofers
2x 350W Mains PA speakers
2x 1000W (or more) Amplifiers.
This set up is too loud for a small room, very loud for a medium sized room, adecuate for a bar, and not enough for a large stage or club.
I hope my post has been at least a lttle helpful, but without having more details, this is just guess work!
(and for the rest of the TBers: IMO, IMHO, YMMV etc. etc. etc.)
Some money and loud, is not a lot to go on. What is some money for you may be a lot/little for other people, but judging by the equipment you mentioned, I am guessing cheap is the aim. It would also be helpful to know what kind of music you are planning on playing.
"Loud" is also open to interpretation. What is loud in a small room (i.e: bedroom, living room) will be medium loud in a larger practice space, quiet in a bar situation, and next to silent in an open air or large stage situation. I will guess (please specify if this is not the case) that you are looking for something that is loud in a small to medium sized practice space, and just enogh to do a small gig or Jam.
Based on the info you shared, which is you on bass and singing, but I am guessing you will at least have some other intrument and maybe a drummer. You have two ways of doing this. Either you get an amp+cab (or combo) for your bass, and then a small PA for just vocals or you can go for a larger PA set up (with a subwoofer) and run your bass via DI into the PA system. Which is better? That depends on the equipment you choose. You will need a better PA system to handle your bass if you want to go that way, but you would save on the bass amp and cab (or combo). If you get a seperate amp+cab for your bass, then you only need a smaller PA to deal with vocals, and you could also skip the sub.
The first option would be to buy used, for the same price as cheap new equipment, you could get better (and louder) used gear. Maybe check your local second hand sites for used PA systems, and report back with what you have found in your budget.
The second option is new. Thomann has some good things at excellent prices (for Europe), but nothing is free.
Let's say you want to go for a bass amp + cab plus a small PA system you would need:
A bass amp and cab (or combo): you mentioned the HB-40B in your first post. This is not a loud combo, unless you are playing in a very small bedroom. For a small to medium practice room, I would recommend a minimum of something like a Fender Rumble 100 or a Hartke A 100. Both of these are 3 times the price of the HB-40B. You may be better looking at something like the Harley Benton BB115T or even the Ashdown Toneman 115 Deep (only 20€ more). With these cabs you would also need an amp, but for 149€ you can get a Behringer Ultrabass BXD3000H, which in total would work out not much more than the combo, and would be louder, and let you add an extra cab if you need to at a later date. To go with this set up, you do not need a DI, but if you did get a DI, you could also look at normal PA amps to use with the cab. (Too many different options to list).
PA System: As you said you want to use an SM58 (great choice) you either need a small mixer to run this through, or you can look at some of the PA systems that already include Mic inputs etc. Something like "the box PA110 A Bundle" for 325€ would give you the mic inputs etc and would probably be enough to run just vocals through to keep up with the bass cabs I mentioned. The mixer you mentioned was the Xenyx USB, this would allow you to connect things to your PC. So you could record the vocals, and even the bass if you plug it in to the mixer from a DI.
If you would rather go for a larger PA system that would be capable of allowing you to skip the bass amp + cab, and go direct into the PA, then you need a DI and a larger PA system with a Subwoofer. This will probably cost you more than the previous set up, but it is possible. The louder you want to go, the more you will need to spend (as a general rule, some deals are pretty good), and the more quality you want, the more you need to spend (also a general rule).
All of this is just an idea, by no means can I say this is the best set up for your situation, as I have no idea what your situation is, I guess I just had some free time to type random ideas
Personally, when I do solo or duo stuff, where I do vocals, keyboard, bass, and PC based loops etc. my set up is:
2x 1000W Subwoofers
2x 350W Mains PA speakers
2x 1000W (or more) Amplifiers.
This set up is too loud for a small room, very loud for a medium sized room, adecuate for a bar, and not enough for a large stage or club.
I hope my post has been at least a lttle helpful, but without having more details, this is just guess work!
(and for the rest of the TBers: IMO, IMHO, YMMV etc. etc. etc.)
PA systems are a way of getting anything that needs an amplifier to be heard. You can run anything through a PA, but depending on the PA, it doesn't always sound good.
Basically yes, at least is you want to be able to hear and understand what you are doing.
2 what? Speakers? You don't, you could just use one.
In a bedroom, yes.
PA Systems generally "deliver the final sound to the audience" Invalid Link Removed
PA stands for Public Adress, so they are used to "adress the public (=the people that are watching your show)".
All a microphone does is convert sound (your singing) into an electric signal. This electric singal has to be amplified by an amplifier and the amplified singal is then again converted from an electric signal to sound (your singing, but louder) by a loudspeaker. The the box PA110 A Bundle mentioned by JACink will do this. The cabinets contain the loudspeaker and the amp.
For a performance you would need two, because people have two ears (stereo). Just to make your voice heard, a single the box PA110 A would be enough.
Now, to amplify a signal (be it your voice or your bass) you need power. The unit of measure for power is Watt (abbreviation: W). A bass has lower frequencies (=is lower) than a human voice. Unfortunately, the human ear can't hear low frequencies as well as high frequencies. Therefore, to amplify a bass you need more power. So, to find a loud bass amp, you have to look for a big number in front of the W(=an amp that has a lot of power). Please be aware that this a simplification. What kind of cabinet (loudspeaker box) with what kind of speakers you use is also important. And many other things, like efficiency etc.
So, the Harley Benton combo amp and the Marshall amp have 40W resp. 30W. That is not much. It can be loud, if you play it in your bedroom. But if you want to play in a band with other people it is too quiet/not powerful enough. It would be best, if you could tell us, what exactly you want to do. Then we can help you find a bass amp and a PA system. Do want to form a band (what type of music, how many people, what instruments?), do you want to play bass and sing for yourself at home? Something else?
It will be louder than the HB-40B you asked about. Yes you could use two, but for the price of 2 of them you could get something else.
I have two of the older versions of these, and yes they can get pretty loud (for parties etc.). You will need an amplifier for it/them.
As I said before, you don't have to. You could look for a powered speaker that has a mic input, that way you can plug the mic directly into the speaker. Most of the ones that have mic in, also have a line in, so you could plug the DI of the combo into th speaker also to give you some extra volume on the bass (not saying it will sound good!).
At least you ask them all in the same thread!
Yes, you are getting louder.
but we still don't know how "loud" you want to be!As we have said, if you can tell us what kind of music, and where you plan on playing it, we can be more specific.
For the PA15ECOMKII, you will need amp that is at least 200w to make the most of the speaker(s). Look in the PA section under amps. You will need a mixer (or a pream, but a small mixer is cheaper) to plug the mic into the amp. You could also look for what is called a "powered mixer" which is a mixer and amplifier in one, but I think you could probably get the small mixer and amp for less.
OK, it's like this:
Me and some friends are making a Motörhead cover band. We will have a bass player, a guitar player and a drummer. And a vocal of course.
We want to be as loud as possible but make it as cheap as possible. We don't need to be as loud as Motörhead but the loudest we can get.
So for example:
If I'm willing to spend 300€ on bass amplifiers and bass stuff and 200€ on microphone stuff, what would be the deal?
Or if I will spend 500€ on bass stuff first.
Me and some friends are making a Motörhead cover band. We will have a bass player, a guitar player and a drummer. And a vocal of course.
We want to be as loud as possible but make it as cheap as possible. We don't need to be as loud as Motörhead but the loudest we can get.
So for example:
If I'm willing to spend 300€ on bass amplifiers and bass stuff and 200€ on microphone stuff, what would be the deal?
Or if I will spend 500€ on bass stuff first.
It's good that you don't want to be as loud as Motörhead, or you would need to add at least 2 zeros to your budget, maybe even 3!
So, I'm just going to assume that you have the instruments and mic, and that you budget is just for loudness (you said you don't care about it sounding good, just loud!).
If you want to do 300 on bass and 200 on PA:
2x Invalid Link Removed
1x Invalid Link Removed
1x Invalid Link Removed (this is a DI pedal that would let you plug your bass into the mixer and run it trhough the PA, if you want, you could swap this for Invalid Link Removed which has a line out, so you could still plug into the PA, but would also have a small practice amp for home).
TOTAL: 432 € with DI Pedal / 491 € with practice bass amp.
If you want to spend 500€ on bass stuff:
1x Invalid Link Removed (this is a PA amp, but you can plug bass into it with a preamp / DI)
2x Invalid Link Removed
1x Invalid Link Removed (as I said before, this is a DI Pedal so you can plug your bass into the PA amp)
You could swap the PA amp for a http://www.thomann.de/es/behringer_ultrabass_bxd3000h.htm which is bass specific, so you could skip the DI pedal, but not as powerful.
You could also add a small mixer so you could run the mic also through the bass cabs, but it won't sound good (IMO).
TOTAL: 486 € for the setup I mentioned / 457 € if you swap the PA amp for the bass amp-
Again, please note that this is the loudest I could come up with on Thomann with the budget you have, I am not saying this will sound good. If you shop around, you may get different options, but not much difference in the final set up.
If you can find stuff used, look for Peavey, you can usually get loud for not a lot of money (but a lot of weight).
Which one of these wireless systems will work best for bass? http://www.thomann.de/se/cat.html?gf=gitarr_bas_tradloes_system&oa=pra
If I do option 1 you wrote, will I be able to run both my bass and mic through that system?
So amplifiers/cabs are just for you to hear it? So audience will only hear the PA system sounds? What about these cabs and amps then [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
If I use the the example 2 you wrote, if I do that way with my mic too, to save money, will it sound decent? Will it be loud?
And by "bass stuff" I mean amps etc. I already have a bass
Thanks!
If I do option 1 you wrote, will I be able to run both my bass and mic through that system?
So amplifiers/cabs are just for you to hear it? So audience will only hear the PA system sounds? What about these cabs and amps then [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
If I use the the example 2 you wrote, if I do that way with my mic too, to save money, will it sound decent? Will it be loud?
And by "bass stuff" I mean amps etc. I already have a bass
Thanks!
I don't use wireless systems for my bass, as I can't justify spending enough money for a good one, and I have had bad experience with cheap wireless systems (microphones etc.). The cheap ones only have one frequency, so if something is using that frequency, you will get it through your bass rig. Maybe somebody else could help with the wireless system.
Yes, you bass will go into a pedal, which transforms your bass signal into a signal that can go through the mixer and then into the amp. I am not saying it will sound great this way, but it will be loud (or at least as loud as anything else you plug into the mixer). If you want more bass, then you would need to add a subwoofer (which is a good idea, but would then go over your budget).
Not always. Depending on how big the venue/room is, and how loud the other instruments are, you will need more or less power from your rig. In bigger venues, usually there is a PA system which is used to make it loud enough for the audience. Some people use a DI to send their bass signal to the mixer, and then have a stage monitor. Other people like to have the sound of their amp+cab, so they use the amp and cab on stage as their monitor and place a microphone in front of the cab to send it to the mixer. In some smaller venues, just the bass and guitar rigs on stage are enough to fill the room.
If you look at this photo, you can see that in front of lemmy's bottom left speaker there are mics, these send his sound to the mixer.
Also remember that just the mic in front of that speaker costs more than your budget
As I said in my last post, I do not think it will sound good. It will be as loud as your bass.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
On a 'large scale' level performers don't have to carry their own PA's. The venue (bar, club, theater, stadium) has a PA in place, the band shows up with their gear and the venue's sound-crew sets up the microphones, DI lines, etc. I'm sure that Lemmy hasn't hauled a PA since the days that he was Jimi Hendrix's roadie, or maybe when he was in Hawkwind. Although I'm sure whatever practice room, facility, whatever the own or hire has one already in place.
I play a variety of gigs. For smaller ones, we have our own PA. For 'front end' or 'front of house' (FOH) or 'the audience' It's suffice for vocals, a few drum mics, and guitar or keys if needed. In those situations, my amp carries the sound in the room, and in most cases our guitars and keys have loud enough amps that we can not need to put a ton of them through the system.
We also have some slightly smaller monitors that we use on stage so our singers can hear what they're doing. It's basically a second PA, just not as powerful that is fed from our mixing board.
In shows where a club has a PA in the room already or festivals, theaters, etc. we show up with our amps and our instruments. We set up and then guys scurry around setting up mics, or running DI's to keys and bass. Since our amps don't have to 'carry the space' we may not turn up as loudly as we do on gigs where we have a little PA and need our amps for FOH.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
And to answer your question about Motorhead, here's the band with a PA:
See those big 'blocks' of speakers to the far left and right on the stage?They're about 20 feet tall and 20 feet wide? See the hanging 'blocks' of speakers just below the stage lights that hang right above the ones at stage level? That's what the crowd is hearing.
