Double Bass Can One Really Learn Online?

[Keith Rawlings]

I'm not an experienced teacher but in my opinion, it's not really possible to learn to play the DB without some private, in-person, one-on-one instruction. It might be worth your while to get a more experienced opinion and post your question on Lynn Seaton's forum. If anyone knows, Lynn's tenure as the jazz bass professor at UNT for the past 20 years is probably one of the best educated opinions available, and Lynn isn't a traditionalist on technique, I've found him very open minded about technique and pedagogy.

I emailed Mr. Seaton and he was very forthcoming; he unfortunately doesn't know of a proper instructor down my way, but I did get to ask him some questions about his Summer Bass Workshop at UNT. The first question I asked him was if it was appropriate for a guy in his 40's who knows he's doing everything wrong on the DB to take his workshop since the majority of the participants (at least from the pictures) appear to be school-aged/college-aged kids. He replied and said he had several participants in their 40's, with the oldest being in his 70's, and that he would look forward to seeing me there next year. I just have to find a way to get off of work for that week because I would love to go!.

Keith, like you, I wanted to learn how to bow, after 40 years of being a self-taught pizz player.

What I did was find a professor of bass at University of Missouri-St. Louis and ask her if she would give me private lessons. Very approachable, very reasonable ($), and good. She is the ONLY professor of bass in the state university system, but she was able to teach me once a week during the summer.

When the fall term began, she could only teach on weekends, so I enrolled in a "community music" program at Webster U. here, where you get a set number of private lessons for a set amount of money.

See if you can find a professor at A&M and ask for private lessons.

I could not have learned so much so quickly from online instruction or books. There is no substitute for having someone look at you and tell you what you're doing wrong (or right).

I did a bit more research and actually spoke with my daughter's music teacher and she referred me to a professor of music from Del Mar College, who plays with the Corpus Christi Symphony. She's a cellist by trade, but also plays the Double Bass, and is well-qualified to teach me how to use a bow. I'm going to have to purchase a good starter bow. When I got my old Kay Bass, I didn't realize that there was actually a bow in the quiver on the vinyl zip case and I unfortunately sat on it and broke it. I wonder sometimes had that bow not broken, would it have changed my playing any? Anyway, I've sent her an email and am hoping to hear back from her soon.

It took me a year to be comfortable with the instrument. Got a lot of help from here, from Geoff's Discover Double Bass beginner's course and youtube. But a teacher is, in my opinion, mandatory, if you are serious about the instrument. Too many nuances, too many bad technique details you get from not having someone explaining it to you face to face, with a double bass in between, watching and correcting you on the spot.

I've heard great things about Discover Double Bass, and may take some time to check those out. I'm in the process of contacting a teacher (see above) and am hoping to get started with her for lessons if her schedule allows. I've been reading some of the forums on Talkbass and I know I must be doing everything wrong because I've always used all four fingers on my left hand, as well as three fingers on my right hand, and I've never had an issue at all. Apparently this is incorrect, but I can pluck the hell out of 16th and 32nd notes with my right hand, and can even get a decent Iron Maiden gallup going with it and not freeze up. Maybe this is just a holdover from my electric bass days (Gibson Thunderbird), which I still play for the surf music we do and for some of the obscure British blues my guitarist really loves to play. I am anxious to have that first lesson where everyone finds out that he or she knows nothing.

Thank you for all of your shared experiences and knowledge. For a guy who's rekindled his passion for the bass after a self-imposed hiatus of live performance for over a decade to raise a family, Talkbass.com is an amazing place with all of the knowledge of the members on this forum. For that I'm truly grateful.

 

[Tom Lane]

I emailed Mr. Seaton and he was very forthcoming; he unfortunately doesn't know of a proper instructor down my way, but I did get to ask him some questions about his Summer Bass Workshop at UNT. The first question I asked him was if it was appropriate for a guy in his 40's who knows he's doing everything wrong on the DB to take his workshop since the majority of the participants (at least from the pictures) appear to be school-aged/college-aged kids. He replied and said he had several participants in their 40's, with the oldest being in his 70's, and that he would look forward to seeing me there next year. I just have to find a way to get off of work for that week because I would love to go!.



I did a bit more research and actually spoke with my daughter's music teacher and she referred me to a professor of music from Del Mar College, who plays with the Corpus Christi Symphony. She's a cellist by trade, but also plays the Double Bass, and is well-qualified to teach me how to use a bow. I'm going to have to purchase a good starter bow. When I got my old Kay Bass, I didn't realize that there was actually a bow in the quiver on the vinyl zip case and I unfortunately sat on it and broke it. I wonder sometimes had that bow not broken, would it have changed my playing any? Anyway, I've sent her an email and am hoping to hear back from her soon.



I've heard great things about Discover Double Bass, and may take some time to check those out. I'm in the process of contacting a teacher (see above) and am hoping to get started with her for lessons if her schedule allows. I've been reading some of the forums on Talkbass and I know I must be doing everything wrong because I've always used all four fingers on my left hand, as well as three fingers on my right hand, and I've never had an issue at all. Apparently this is incorrect, but I can pluck the hell out of 16th and 32nd notes with my right hand, and can even get a decent Iron Maiden gallup going with it and not freeze up. Maybe this is just a holdover from my electric bass days (Gibson Thunderbird), which I still play for the surf music we do and for some of the obscure British blues my guitarist really loves to play. I am anxious to have that first lesson where everyone finds out that he or she knows nothing.

Thank you for all of your shared experiences and knowledge. For a guy who's rekindled his passion for the bass after a self-imposed hiatus of live performance for over a decade to raise a family, Talkbass.com is an amazing place with all of the knowledge of the members on this forum. For that I'm truly grateful.

Lynn is just a really good guy. I think he loves what he does and he's naturally gifted at finding easy ways to do things. Like many great musicians, he makes playing the bass look effortless.

I went to his camp last year and think you'd really enjoy it. For me, it was transformational! It's true that most of the participants are teenagers getting ready to apply to college, but there were two 20 somethings at my camp, and I find that music is a great equalizer and age is not a factor.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Lynn is just a really good guy. I think he loves what he does and he's naturally gifted at finding easy ways to do things. Like many great musicians, he makes playing the bass look effortless.

I went to his camp last year and think you'd really enjoy it. For me, it was transformational! It's true that most of the participants are teenagers getting ready to apply to college, but there were two 20 somethings at my camp, and I find that music is a great equalizer and age is not a factor.

He is phenomenally talented on the DB as well - I was blown away by some of the videos of him I’ve watched on YouTube. I would love to take the clinic; and I feel better about probably not being the only “old guy” there. It looks like registration hasn’t opened up yet, so I’ll keep checking the UNT website and see when it comes up.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

...I think you can learn a tremendous amount by video.

I found the Milt Hinton episode of the Ray Brown Art of Playing the Bass on VHS unopened on Amazon for $60 and it’s ridiculous how good that man was. He makes it all look so easy! Attempting to slap in his style is very challenging - plus he does it with so much focus on maintaining the melody of what he is playing.

I’ve only read about the series in blogs and such because there are no videos of that episode online, so I was glad to find it available to order. I’m hoping once I start real lessons with an instructor that I can better understand the instrument as a whole, then apply it to where I want to take my playing next, which would be some combination of everything I like about the Standup bass - slap, pizz, arco - I even like some of the cool percussive stuff that Adam Ben Ezra does!

 

[Who da Ville]

She's a cellist by trade, but also plays the Double Bass, and is well-qualified to teach me how to use a bow.

I took a few lessions from a woman with similar qualifications (cello and violin were her 1st two instruments), and learned a fair bit from her. At the time, she was playing double bass in a jazz band. Shortly after she started giving me lessons, she suffered an injury and stopped playing all instruments; forever. In retrospect, I think the best thing she showed me was Michael Klinghoffer's excellent YouTube series on 'How to Drive the Double Bass.'

If you end up taking lessons from this lady, please keep in mind a hard and fast rule: "If it hurts, don't do it." I believe this is especially appropriate when the double bass is not your teachers primary instrument.

Good luck.

 

[bassdude51]

If "we" could learn bass by dropping a needle over and over and over again into a record groove until we finally leaned a bass line..............certainly "we" can learn online.

 

[210superair]

To Fellow DB Newbies: You DO Need A Teacher!!!

I've never had a teacher. Come watch me play and you'll nudge the op and say "See, this is why you need a teacher...."

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Lynn is just a really good guy. I think he loves what he does and he's naturally gifted at finding easy ways to do things. Like many great musicians, he makes playing the bass look effortless.

I went to his camp last year and think you'd really enjoy it. For me, it was transformational! It's true that most of the participants are teenagers getting ready to apply to college, but there were two 20 somethings at my camp, and I find that music is a great equalizer and age is not a factor.

Tom - did you stay on campus with the package deal, as well as take advantage of the meal plan? If so, do you get more immersed in the camp staying on campus? I was looking into it a bit more in detail, and I have a boatload if points at Best Western because of work, so I thought I might stay there, unless you get a fuller experience staying at UNT with the lodging through the camp.

 

[Tom Lane]

Tom - did you stay on campus with the package deal, as well as take advantage of the meal plan? If so, do you get more immersed in the camp staying on campus? I was looking into it a bit more in detail, and I have a boatload if points at Best Western because of work, so I thought I might stay there, unless you get a fuller experience staying at UNT with the lodging through the camp.

I bought the meal plan but stayed in a hotel off campus. In my case, that meant renting a car too. The meal plan was a good purchase IMM, because they had a reasonable variety and there really isn't enough time to go off campus for lunch and dinner unless you're well familiar with the area and have a car; brown bag would be the next best, IMM. The dorms OTOH, are undergrad dorms, two to a room, 4 to a shower... I like to cook my own breakfast and not share my snoring with anyone else and that also worked out fine for me. I found a hotel 15 minutes from campus and parking was a block away once I got my permit. My wife was joining me at the end of the week and so it kind of made sense to stay in one hotel for the duration. I mostly ate lunch and dinner by myself unless Lynn or one of the other faculty were convenient because I didn't want to overdo my welcome and the kids were all cool, but, I wasn't really interested in their group talk. I did have some pleasant conversations with both of the 20 somethings, but that was one-on-one.

I don't think I lost anything by not staying in the dorms. I expect that I actually got more sleep and rest NOT staying in the dorms. The one thing I messed up is that the agenda states that the first session starts Monday at 10am and registration is at 9, but because 10 of the 12 campers were staying in the dorms, they were ready to start at 9:15 - when Lynn phoned me asking me where I was... "Uh, just left the hotel; should be there in 25 minutes" except I walked right by the room and spent another 15 minutes trying to decipher the building's room numbering scheme, which, I can attest, is not remotely logical. Hint: the loading dock is on the 2nd floor, not the first, and Lynn's room is right by the loading dock, but not in sequence.
If you go, I think your eyes and ears will be opened to what is truly feasible for a jazz bassist, and the classical lectures will likely open your world to what can be done by a bow on a bass by an extremely talented and skilled player.

Imagine getting an hour+ lesson with Lynn by playing with his trio, and then being present when he critiques 20 other bassist's performances. That alone is worth the price of admission, IMM, but you get the evening concerts, the classical concerts, the technique lectures, the listening hours... for a serious bass player, a transformative experience.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

I bought the meal plan but stayed in a hotel off campus. In my case, that meant renting a car too. The meal plan was a good purchase IMM, because they had a reasonable variety and there really isn't enough time to go off campus for lunch and dinner unless you're well familiar with the area and have a car; brown bag would be the next best, IMM. The dorms OTOH, are undergrad dorms, two to a room, 4 to a shower... I like to cook my own breakfast and not share my snoring with anyone else and that also worked out fine for me. I found a hotel 15 minutes from campus and parking was a block away once I got my permit. My wife was joining me at the end of the week and so it kind of made sense to stay in one hotel for the duration. I mostly ate lunch and dinner by myself unless Lynn or one of the other faculty were convenient because I didn't want to overdo my welcome and the kids were all cool, but, I wasn't really interested in their group talk. I did have some pleasant conversations with both of the 20 somethings, but that was one-on-one.

I don't think I lost anything by not staying in the dorms. I expect that I actually got more sleep and rest NOT staying in the dorms. The one thing I messed up is that the agenda states that the first session starts Monday at 10am and registration is at 9, but because 10 of the 12 campers were staying in the dorms, they were ready to start at 9:15 - when Lynn phoned me asking me where I was... "Uh, just left the hotel; should be there in 25 minutes" except I walked right by the room and spent another 15 minutes trying to decipher the building's room numbering scheme, which, I can attest, is not remotely logical. Hint: the loading dock is on the 2nd floor, not the first, and Lynn's room is right by the loading dock, but not in sequence.
If you go, I think your eyes and ears will be opened to what is truly feasible for a jazz bassist, and the classical lectures will likely open your world to what can be done by a bow on a bass by an extremely talented and skilled player.

Imagine getting an hour+ lesson with Lynn by playing with his trio, and then being present when he critiques 20 other bassist's performances. That alone is worth the price of admission, IMM, but you get the evening concerts, the classical concerts, the technique lectures, the listening hours... for a serious bass player, a transformative experience.

That sounds like an amazing experience! I’m definitely going to look into it for next summer.
My instructor wants me to get a French bow as she only uses French bow technique. I really need to get some rudimentary fundamentals with utilizing the bow and reading music before I think I can handle the weeklong camp. I haven’t attempted to read music since high school classical guitar class, so I have a lot of work to do. I’m putting off the private lessons until after the holidays, and because my bass needs a ton of work to be in proper condition to learn, but for now I’m working on getting the bow and text materials to study with her for now. Should be fun.

 

[Tom Lane]

That sounds like an amazing experience! I’m definitely going to look into it for next summer.
My instructor wants me to get a French bow as she only uses French bow technique. I really need to get some rudimentary fundamentals with utilizing the bow and reading music before I think I can handle the weeklong camp. I haven’t attempted to read music since high school classical guitar class, so I have a lot of work to do. I’m putting off the private lessons until after the holidays, and because my bass needs a ton of work to be in proper condition to learn, but for now I’m working on getting the bow and text materials to study with her for now. Should be fun.

I'd expect the more proficient you are on the bass the more you'll get from Lynn's workshop. There's not much arco or reading so I wouldn't let that deter you. Most of the reading is scales and arpeggios Lynn takes you through in the morning designed to get you comfortable with shifting and pivoting and strategizing how to approach scale and arp practice. There was one arco lesson with UNT classical bass director - an amazing player - and there's an opportunity to play with 2 or 3 simple pieces with the classical campers but it's very low key and no one's going to pressure you to play those pieces if you're struggling. Lynn will expect you to write out a bass line for a chorus of the tune you'll perform with his trio, but you could do that before the workshop begins if need be. I had a hard time committing to only one line because I'm used to improvising my lines anymore, but it's important to play what you wrote for the sake of the discussion afterwards.

Ah, one warning about your teacher in Corpus Christi, if their primary instrument is cello in the classical genre, it's fairly common that they may not have a traditional jazz bass right hand technique. If they pluck with the tips of their fingers rather than their fingers parallel to the strings, then that might be the case. If it is, your right-hand pizz technique would probably be something to get from a different teacher.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Ah, one warning about your teacher in Corpus Christi, if their primary instrument is cello in the classical genre, it's fairly common that they may not have a traditional jazz bass right hand technique. If they pluck with the tips of their fingers rather than their fingers parallel to the strings, then that might be the case. If it is, your right-hand pizz technique would probably be something to get from a different teacher.

Yes - I am also concerned about this as well, but for now I want to learn the ways and intricacies of basic arco technique. I am 100% positive my right hand pizz style is not correct now as I use all three fingers (index, middle and ring) and I play perpendicular to the strings with my right hand (always have). I know it's wrong, but I can play fairly fast in this manner with a great 16th note thump for the bluesier numbers my band plays that require it. My instructor says that she needs to see how I play and what genres I intend to utilize her teachings for, so I'm hoping that once I meet with her and get down to business and explain what I would like to get out of lessons with her, that this will all come together. She is 100% a classical player, which I thought was something that every bassist could learn something from, and which is why I started here.

I've also put out some feelers to Texas A&M Kingsville's Jazz Department to inquire as to lessons from someone there, but they don't appear to have anyone specializing in Jazz double bass on their staff. I am still waiting to hear back from the director to see if there is anyone who can teach me Jazz bass to learn proper pizz technique.

 

[garrett2]

I've been working through Dave Allen Moore's Fractal Fingering course and it is fantastic. It's really making me rethink how I understand the topography of the fingerboard -- not that I had many interesting thoughts before. I just note this because I only have access to these insights via online learning. There are plenty of great teachers around me, but sometimes what you need to learn is online. We are lucky to be able to access such troves of insight for relatively little money.

 

[glocke1]

I see that there seems to be so much instructional information available online for double bass technique - from Jazz to orchestral and beyond; but can one really learn properly from these resources? I’m limited where I live when it comes to finding a proper teacher for double bass, and I’m wondering if I can actually get as much from online instruction as compared to actually practicing with a proper instructor?

I’m kind of stuck in a rut lately musically, having played mostly Rockabilly/psychobilly over the last 25 years, and I really, really want to learn arco technique, as well as proper scales for Jazz pizz playing. Can these resources be helpful, and can anyone of my fellow TB’ers recommend any good programs that are worth the money? Thanks.

I'm coming from the EB world and have been taking DB bass the past 6 months.

Taking a break from the 1:1 lessons right now for a few different reasons (hope to start up again in a few weeks), and doing some online studying, but my feeling is that you can learn some things and make some progress from online studies but nothing beats 1:1 instruction and having someone correct you when you are doing something wrong, give you live feedback on your progress, etc..

Even for the EB stuff I do I'd like to get back into taking lessons and studying improv on that instrument with someone for the very same reasons I mentioned above.

 

[Paulabass]

Sheldon Cooper learned to swim online.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Well I got some feedback from the Texas A&M Kingsville Jazz Department and they directed me to one of their adjunct professors who is a double bassist, and he heads up their jazz ensemble at the school. His name is Glynn Garcia and he’s proficient on DB and EB, and he’s played with several jazz bands in the area over the last 20 years. I’m going to start working with him after the first of the year (plus my bass is going to the luthier to get worked on in between then), and he is going to start working with me on jazz scales, proper left and right hand technique, as well as guiding me with proper bow technique. I think it’ll be better for what I’m attempting to get out of the lessons to start with someone with an extensive Jazz background first, than to start working with a classical player firsthand. Plus to work with the cellist/double bassist I would have had to enroll at the local community college and work lessons through the school’s schedule, but my job won’t allow me to do that.
I’m very excited about it and am looking forward to it. I’ve been in such a rut lately with music that this will really help to inject some life into everything. I want the fingerboard to open up for me more and I’m so sick of the I-IV-V chord progression.

 

[AGCurry]

Well I got some feedback from the Texas A&M Kingsville Jazz Department and they directed me to one of their adjunct professors who is a double bassist, and he heads up their jazz ensemble at the school. His name is Glynn Garcia and he’s proficient on DB and EB, and he’s played with several jazz bands in the area over the last 20 years. I’m going to start working with him after the first of the year (plus my bass is going to the luthier to get worked on in between then), and he is going to start working with me on jazz scales, proper left and right hand technique, as well as guiding me with proper bow technique. I think it’ll be better for what I’m attempting to get out of the lessons to start with someone with an extensive Jazz background first, than to start working with a classical player firsthand. Plus to work with the cellist/double bassist I would have had to enroll at the local community college and work lessons through the school’s schedule, but my job won’t allow me to do that.
I’m very excited about it and am looking forward to it. I’ve been in such a rut lately with music that this will really help to inject some life into everything. I want the fingerboard to open up for me more and I’m so sick of the I-IV-V chord progression.

Keith, this sounds just right! Good on ya.

 

[Pete Hand]

I found the Milt Hinton episode of the Ray Brown Art of Playing the Bass on VHS unopened on Amazon for $60 and it’s ridiculous how good that man was. He makes it all look so easy! Attempting to slap in his style is very challenging - plus he does it with so much focus on maintaining the melody of what he is playing.

I have the set and it is great to review and work with, set aside for awhile, then go back and review to reinforce what you wanted as your take-away.

That VHS series includes one tape with Milt Hinton, one with John Clayton and one with Francois Rabbath. It's sort of a mini-master class that you can use to review all the styles. It also has a performance tape with "An Evening with Triple Threat" which is Ray Brown, Herb Ellis and Monty Alexander.

I believe these sorts of materials, especially for materials no longer produced, are meant to be handed off so that others can learn from these great masters. I posted previously that I have them and no longer need them, and hope I am not violating the rules when I state here that these are available for someone to get from me and learn from them. This is not just an attempt to make a sale; these do no one any good when they are simply sitting on my shelf. Those of us that have been playing a long time have a lot of great materials no longer available elsewhere.

We lost a drummer/teacher/local DJ coming home from his NYE gig (the first vehicle fatality in Montana for 2020) and that type of event helps you focus on your own perspective, leaving your spouse with your stuff to deal with, and realizing it might be time to review your own studio overburden.

 

[zj215]

To Fellow DB Newbies: You DO Need A Teacher!!!

I'm sorry I have to disagree on the DO NEED (to have a teacher) bit. My husband has been a PROFESSIONAL, which is hard enough to say, double bass player for nearly forty years and he has never had a bass lesson. He has done nothing else and would be useless at anything else. And no he isn't a genius just a bass player - joke. I had classical training and I can't play like him. Lessons help and it depends on many things like what you intend to do, what you want to play, whether you want to teach as part of your business. I'd say its more important to learn how to do your books if you want to be professional. Again another joke. Sorry covid lock down humour getting to me

 

[J_Bass]

I'm sorry I have to disagree on the DO NEED (to have a teacher) bit. My husband has been a PROFESSIONAL, which is hard enough to say, double bass player for nearly forty years and he has never had a bass lesson. He has done nothing else and would be useless at anything else. And no he isn't a genius just a bass player - joke. I had classical training and I can't play like him. Lessons help and it depends on many things like what you intend to do, what you want to play, whether you want to teach as part of your business. I'd say its more important to learn how to do your books if you want to be professional. Again another joke. Sorry covid lock down humour getting to me

I said that from personal experience.

I play bass guitar for over 20 years. Started on double bass a year and a half ago. Could I learned alone, with youtube videos, to play some tunes? Of course.
Do I benefit immensely and learn much more things the correct way with a teacher to play jazz double bass? Absolutely.

So, in my opinion, as a person with classical formation on piano and musical education and self taught electric bassist, get a teacher.

Personal opinion of course.