Can putting on flatwounds change intonation?

[Ric5]

if you change strings to ANYTHING THAT IS NOT THE SAME EXACT SET then it can and will change the setup, and intonation

 

[2F/2F]

Any change in string specs – especially in tension – affects intonation.

 

[5tring]

@Thom Fioriglio In case you are not sure about witness points, they are set by simply pressing down on the string where it passes through the nut and over the bridge saddle to make sure that the sounding length is as straght and short as possible with no curvature in the string. See the image below. Viewed from the side, the string passing over the saddle should look like the green one, not the red one...
View attachment 3917396

This is interesting and new to me

I get the logic, but does the ‘witness point’ not move up into the headstock as the strings stretch and you retune back up to pitch?

or do you do this once the strings have bedded in a bit?

or is the stretching of strings so tiny that it doesn’t affect the witness point?

 

[gelinas666]

Yes. Every bass I put Fender 9050 L's on had to have a setup. Trussrod, intonation..

 

[Shorty3]

Hi all, I just added flatwounds to my Fender Player P Bass and it looks like the E and G string are now slightly out of intonation. My question is can flatwounds or a change of strings cause that? I had Fender 7250 nickel roundwounds on it with gauge 45-65-85-105. I put on Fender 9050 steel flatwounds gauge 45-60-80-100. Would that make a difference in intonation? Thanks for any help.

Thom

I found John Carruthers tutorials on youtube to be quite helpful.

Watch what he does from 3:42 on for intonation here:



Also his bass setup tutorials:

Step 1


Step 2


Step 3


Step 4


Hope this helps!

 

[SteveCS]

This is interesting and new to me

I get the logic, but does the ‘witness point’ not move up into the headstock as the strings stretch and you retune back up to pitch?

or do you do this once the strings have bedded in a bit?

or is the stretching of strings so tiny that it doesn’t affect the witness point?

Like all elements in the setup process, it is part of an iterative progression towards and end point. As such, if going to a new type of string I will pull the saddles back a couple of mm to almost guarantee the intonation starts off flat. I also raise them a little so that I start with a higher-than-final action. This way, as I make iterations towards the optimum point, the saddle is always moving forwards and making the string length shorter, which means tension is falling. As the setup progresses, and if good care is taken, the saddle is always moving forwards, which means that any previous witness points end up behind the saddle and not part of the sounding length.

To be honest, I rarely pay much attention to the nut, mainly because I have my nut slots cut at a gentle curve away from the centreline rather than at a sharp angle - the strings tend to conform to this without additional encouragement.

 

[4dog]

and now you understand not changing strings for months to years at a stretch...its a job!


lol

 

[Thom Fioriglio]

Like all elements in the setup process, it is part of an iterative progression towards and end point. As such, if going to a new type of string I will pull the saddles back a couple of mm to almost guarantee the intonation starts off flat. I also raise them a little so that I start with a higher-than-final action. This way, as I make iterations towards the optimum point, the saddle is always moving forwards and making the string length shorter, which means tension is falling. As the setup progresses, and if good care is taken, the saddle is always moving forwards, which means that any previous witness points end up behind the saddle and not part of the sounding length.

To be honest, I rarely pay much attention to the nut, mainly because I have my nut slots cut at a gentle curve away from the centreline rather than at a sharp angle - the strings tend to conform to this without additional encouragement.

Thanks for the clearer explanation on "witnessing" the strings. Very helpful.

 

[Thom Fioriglio]

I found John Carruthers tutorials on youtube to be quite helpful.

Watch what he does from 3:42 on for intonation here:



Also his bass setup tutorials:

Step 1


Step 2


Step 3


Step 4


Hope this helps!

Very helpful. Thanks.

 

[bassrique]

@Thom Fioriglio In case you are not sure about witness points, they are set by simply pressing down on the string where it passes through the nut and over the bridge saddle to make sure that the sounding length is as straght and short as possible with no curvature in the string. See the image below. Viewed from the side, the string passing over the saddle should look like the green one, not the red one...
View attachment 3917396

My eyes aren't what they used to be. The green and red in the figure look the same.

 

[Thom Fioriglio]

My eyes aren't what they used to be. The green and red in the figure look the same.

The green has a slight kink or bend to it so the angle coming off the bridge saddle is straighter rather than rounding over the saddle.

 

[SteveCS]

The green has a slight kink or bend to it so the angle coming off the bridge saddle is straighter rather than rounding over the saddle.

Exactly.

 

[Pirate Captain]

 

[SteveCS]

My eyes aren't what they used to be. The green and red in the figure look the same.

I tried to exaggerate it in the diagram - abviously not enough! But really, once you see it for real it will be obvious. Witnesses will 'self-set' over time, especially with lots of playing, but then the intonation will also drift. Doing it at string change is really just accelerating a natural process so you are good from the get-go without having to chase your tail.

 

[jeff62]

if you change strings to ANYTHING THAT IS NOT THE SAME EXACT SET then it can and will change the setup, and intonation

Intonation can also be off even when you change to the exact same, but new, string set. Manufacturing tolerances may result in minor adjustments.

As a rule, I check the intonation at every string change. It takes all of 5 minutes, including making any minor adjustments.

 

[michael_t]

I tried to exaggerate it in the diagram - obviously not enough!

How about this?

 

[mcnach]

Hi all, I just added flatwounds to my Fender Player P Bass and it looks like the E and G string are now slightly out of intonation. My question is can flatwounds or a change of strings cause that? I had Fender 7250 nickel roundwounds on it with gauge 45-65-85-105. I put on Fender 9050 steel flatwounds gauge 45-60-80-100. Would that make a difference in intonation? Thanks for any help.

Thom

Yes.

Intonation adjustments are necessary to compensate for the slight change in pitch as you press a string against a fret. When you do that you're stretching the string ever so slightly, which means it'll get slightly sharp. The higher the action, the more pronounced the effect is, but just how much it changes the pitch depends on the actual string: the gauge, material and construction all contribute. Change strings, and the intonation adjustments needed will be different. In most cases the difference will be so subtle that it won't matter, but sometimes it'll be noticeable. Changing to flats from rounds can easily make it noticeable.

 

[Thom Fioriglio]

Yes.

Intonation adjustments are necessary to compensate for the slight change in pitch as you press a string against a fret. When you do that you're stretching the string ever so slightly, which means it'll get slightly sharp. The higher the action, the more pronounced the effect is, but just how much it changes the pitch depends on the actual string: the gauge, material and construction all contribute. Change strings, and the intonation adjustments needed will be different. In most cases the difference will be so subtle that it won't matter, but sometimes it'll be noticeable. Changing to flats from rounds can easily make it noticeable.

Thanks. This explains why first adjust string height and then intonation. Makes sense!

 

[mcnach]

@Thom Fioriglio In case you are not sure about witness points, they are set by simply pressing down on the string where it passes through the nut and over the bridge saddle to make sure that the sounding length is as straght and short as possible with no curvature in the string. See the image below. Viewed from the side, the string passing over the saddle should look like the green one, not the red one...
View attachment 3917396

+100

For many years I just took for granted that after restringing my guitar or bass, there would be some period of slight tuning instability. I would marvel at those guys onstage that have a guitar tech restringing their guitars and playing them straight away without tuning issues, I had no idea what kind of sorcery that could be.

Then I met this guy who owns an amplifier company and has been a semi-pro guitarist for decades, and we were chatting, trying guitars etc, and he told me about how he restrings his guitars and sets the witness points. What a revelation!!!

Ever since: rock solid tuning from the first minute.

 

[SteveCS]

How about this?

View attachment 3918038

That hits the spot!