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Can we talk about marijuana?

#321
It HAS been scientifically proven that marijuana does contain substantially more cancer causing tar then tobacco.
So if you believe that cigarettes have a detrimental effect on health, then you also believe that marijuana is unhealthy...

But there again, no one HAS to believe that, if they do not want to. No one has to believe the world is round either. You cannot prove it to them, if they do not want to accept it
at that point it becomes a matter of faith
 
#323
Lee H said:
It HAS been scientifically proven that marijuana does contain substantially more cancer causing tar then tobacco.
So if you believe that cigarettes have a detrimental effect on health, then you also believe that marijuana is unhealthy...

But there again, no one HAS to believe that, if they do not want to. No one has to believe the world is round either. You cannot prove it to them, if they do not want to accept it
at that point it becomes a matter of faith
Click to expand...

Again, it actually comes down to you posting the article(s) that cite your claims ;)
 
#324
Me (with my GF, Snow White) in the '70s. 'Nuf said.

MunjiSnowWhiteweb.jpg
 
#325
Although I think it should be legal, I personally find most people IMO in the US that would use it would be way to stupid to not abuse it. I've been to Holland and lots of other places, and I personally like the smell of it. (Hmmm.. mary jane scented candles... hmmmmm.. ;) Maybe there's a market? I could get my American capitalism thang happening and make a bundle!:) Hmm... Let's see who appreciates sarcasm at TB? ;)) I think that it would help economically, and take a lot of the power away from seedy dealers. It's about discipline, and I feel, as a nation, we currently have none. In the Western hemisphere, we need to figure something out. Someone once told me they made a killing back in the 60's flying the stuff into America from Vietnam... Was he telling the truth? I leave that up to others more "in the know" than I am.. But, it won't be any worse than the gun thing here. Unless, people are stupid and smoke before work and such. One thing I did notice in Holland, was that the people I usually saw beyond doped up were usually foreigners who I equate with teenagers when they first get out of high school and off to college.. They usually go wild with the freedom..

Just a thought... :0
 
#329
jmattbassplaya said:
Again, it actually comes down to you posting the article(s) that cite your claims ;)
Click to expand...

did you really think you could discredit my point that easily?

OK, these results were originally found by a pro pot study group trying to prove that marijuana was completely harmless. They tried to hide their results, but were unsuccessful

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Oh snap!...LOL
 
#331
Schlyder said:
What do you think they based their conclusions on? There are quoted medical studies in that report. As well as addiction studies, and crime studies, etc etc.
They didn't just sit around over coffee and write the damn thing. That was a 2 year Committee. With witnesses appearing in person before the Senate Committee. Probably one of the most comprehensive and trustworthy reports on the topic. As I would hardly think there was any bias in favour of cannabis in the findings. You could probably be safe to assume though there was a bias against cannabis from the Senate Committee.

Life is full of risks.
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My point was that the report endorses that marijuana can be harmful. It's a given.

It also endorses that the government needs to have a policy....ie marijuana is not a harmless substance that does not need regulation.

This comment based on reading the conclusion, not the whole report.
 
#332
Lee H said:
did you really think you could discredit my point that easily?

OK, these results were originally found by a pro pot study group trying to prove that marijuana was completely harmless. They tried to hide their results, but were unsuccessful

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Oh snap!...LOL
Click to expand...

Dude, I want you to provide findings! That's not an attempt to discredit you - it's an attempt to actually turn this farce of a thread into something more logic based instead of some he said, she said' debacle.

So no, not oh snap. It's about time someone on your side of the argument actually provided something of worth. This is good for everyone involved with this thread.
 
#334
Von Felgenhauer said:
Ok so if every test study and research is all biased and wrong, why should i believe the ones saying its bad? I'm very willing to listen and read and learn. You guys just cannot come up with actual proof marijuana is harmful. Please prove me wrong cause its an expensive habit, but i really do believe in the healing properties it has, both mentally and physically.
Click to expand...

I don't mean this in any derogatory way, merely as an observation based on your posts so far, but I seriously doubt you currently have a strong enough background in science to analyse the statistics in any really thorough studies that may suggest it is harmful, and even if you did, I doubt you would read them with an open mind. You'd read them and write them off as being funded by, or done on behalf of "the man", while citing non peer-reviewed studies from potlovers.com, as totally acceptable.

I'll give you a little advice to get you started on how to really research a topic. First things first, read the results and methodology of any study. This is where the raw data, free from any biased interpretation, will be found. A thorough methodology section will also give away any biases. Ignore the conclusion section, a conclusion is just one group's interpretation, another group may interpret the very same data differently.

Secondly, look for good peer review systems. Something published by the Royal Society, or the US equivalent, with a thorough peer review system is much more likely to hold water than something published in some trashy magazine article.

Thirdly, just plain avoid basing your opinions on things you read on websites that are blatantly obviously pushing either agenda.

I'm not arguing for or against cannabis use here, just against poor logic and improper application of science.
 
#335
Devils Advocate said:
I've been supplementing my income the past couple of years teaching different subjects to young adults at risk. It's a program that basically gives them an alternative means to "earn" a piece of paper that will state that they graduated highschool.

One of the subjects I'm covering this term is alcohol and drug abuse. Marijuana is next on the list of topics, and I'd like others input regarding the subject. I'm aware of all the textbook risks of smoking marijuana, I know that marijuana effects people differently, I believe that it is a less harmful drug than alcohol, I have very mixed opinions regarding it's legalization...

I do however believe it's an incredibly harmful and addictive drug, I have a few of my own theories on it's usage, and I'd just like to kick it around talkbass a bit. For interesting discussion, and also to prepare myself for some of the resistance I'll be meeting when we start to discuss it in class.

Some of my thoughts; First and foremost, 95% (and that's not an exaggeration) of the kids that come to my classes reaking of pot do no work whatsoever, and pretty much just sit there smiling. At everything. I'm pretty sure every single one of them is failing, and it's because I have no work to grade them on, and their test grades are all below 50. Yet they'll argue that it makes them smarter and able to focus more. Simply not true.

Second, and this is my own theory that may or may not hold water. Marijuana usage was huge throughout the 60s and 70s, took a dive in the mid 80s up till around 2000, and has been on the rise since. It's currently at an all time high, especially amoungst teens. I believe this is part of a trend that's about to repeat itself. In the 60s and 70s pot was believed to be completely harmless. In the 80s people realized this was a lie, many lives fell apart (post is getting too long for details), many people wound up in rehabs because they found the "gateway drug" theory was actually true, and basically, people realized that pot wasn't so hamless. People woke up and pot usage went down significantly. Now we're back at the starting gate. Kids hear constantly in all forms of media that pot is completely harmless and believe it's todays version of "the man" that wants us to believe that it's no good. Ironicall, I believe it's "the man" that wants everone stoned out of their mind. Anyhow... I see the cycle starting again, and unfortunately believe it's going to take another 10-20 years for people to realize that this stuff really has a plethora of harmful effects. At the very least it (regular usage) keeps people from learning to deal with their emotions, and grow into fully mature, healthy adults.

I'm ready for lots of backlash here. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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hmm. subscribed to give my opines later. as someone who used to smoke a lot of dope when younger, I agree.
 
#336
aborgman said:
I wouldn't necessarily argue beneficial - but the fact that every society that has ever existed in history has used recreational drugs, certainly points to it being a standard part of the human condition.
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This is exactly why there needs to be a spiritual dimension to this discussion. As in the human spirit, not necessarily any specific religious creed.
 
#340
OldGreg said:
And people don't abuse the medical system to get legal opiates that can actually kill someone from just the acute effects of the drug?
Click to expand...
Don't add to what I said, or manipulate the context..
abuse is a huge issue in CA, and marijuana is a hot topic. I never mentioned other drugs, and other drugs have absolutely nothing at all to do with medical marijuana abusers causing the laws for marijuana privileges being revisited and limited
 

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