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Can we talk about marijuana?

The real gateway drug is caffeine. As children, we watched our parents drink coffee to wake up in the morning, or to help with sleepiness throughout the day. We realize at an early age that we can change the ways our bodies work by ingesting different substances.

Now for the weed: not for everybody. Same as every intoxicant. I know very successful people that use a variety of drugs, some regularly, some occasionally, with mixed results.

I would like to address the issue of drug dealers brought up earlier. Most of the pot dealers I have met through my 20 years of interaction with the sort, sold/sell only marijuana. I have been immersed in the subcultures of other hard drugs (everything but heroin), and the people who sold those drugs, rarely sold or even used pot.
 
I don't use marijuana and I don't recommend it. There's debate whether it's a "gateway drug" or not. The answer to both sides of the arguement is YES.

Marijuana is a gateway drug for some people and it's not for others. Some people use weed and don't use other drugs (with the possible exception of alcohol). We should make sure the language is clear and state plainly that alcohol is considered a drug. Some people use weed and that compromise "gives them permission" to try other drugs. Sometimes the people providing or the place/event their in leads them to get into something else (a party for example). Seems most often to be younger users that have it be a gateway drug. So, yes, it's a gateway drug...but not for everyone who uses it.

Marijuana is classified as a hallucinogen. ANY kind of smoke is bad for your health. Our lungs are not made for that.

My question about the whole issue comes down to this: What's so horribly wrong with your life that you have to use drugs to feel good anyway?
IME, most often recreational drug use can be traced back to spritual problems or spiritual distress.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
 
jmattbassplaya said:
You're trying to relate two unrelated things together. Marijuana is illegal, so of course some alcohol drinkers will turn it down for that reason alone. However, if you're already doing other illegal drugs it would be pointless to turn down a joint. It's not like doing weed is going to make you fail a drug test even more than you would if you were already an occasional coke or heroin user.

Hogwash! I know people who will not touch pot because it can cause them to fail drug tests for months. Instead, they use cocaine and methamphetamines, which will clear from all but a hair test in three days.
 
My question about the whole issue comes down to this: What's so horribly wrong with your life that you have to use drugs to feel good anyway?
IME, most often recreational drug use can be traced back to spritual problems or spiritual distress.

That's a common misconception. A lot of people like to believe that if someone uses drugs (including alcohol) they MUST have a bad life or have they something wrong with them. That simply isn't true. I have a marvelous life that I'm absolutely grateful for. I have a nice family, lots of good friends, I'm relatively bright and good looking, I'm talented in many things, and I like to occasionally get schmammered on the weekend with my friends. I feel good without drugs, but they are fun to do on occasion and they can lead to *positive* things in people's lives as well.

Also, I don't know where you get the idea that drug use is often started because of spiritual problems. You might need to explain that more.
 

I've met some of my closest friends from going out to parties, meeting people, and drinking with them for a night. I've met a number of girlfriends the same way as well. These are people who have been positive influences in my life. We don't always have to be inebriated to have a good time. In fact, I'd estimate that 95% of the time we spend together is done so in a sober state of mind; but a lot of these relationships started through going out and sharing a beer with one another. That's not to say all or even most my relationships start this way, but I can guarantee you that I would of missed out on some really good friends had I not been fond of the drink. So yes, drugs (in this case alcohol) can have POSITIVE effects on people who use it with care and moderation.

Now explain to me how drug use starts through some sort of spiritual disturbance because I don't see it.
 
No_Snoop.gif

LOL! :D
 
My dad has smoked weed since before I was born and continues to this day. He has a home, two cars, and supports three children. He works his @** off and probably always will.

Maybe he's an anomaly, but I'm sure he isn't the only responsible pot head. Hell, I would be if my job didn't require random drug testing.. :)
 
Devils Advocate said:
Not good at quoting and responding but I'd like to address a few things mentioned.

First, some of the students I now have, that presently cut all the time and are failing miserably, were previously good students. I've had them before. Actually wondered what the change was all about until I started noticing they reaked of pot all the time.

Second, I find it interesting to think that people's marijuana use doesn't affect anyone else. It absolutely does, in many ways. When people are stoned the mass majority of them are disconnected. Kind of in another dimension not relating to things on the same plane as I am. Everybody knows the dumb smile that often accompanies being stoned, and the familiar "dude, it's all good" attitude. Was doing some studio work not that long ago. Engineer got toasted mid session and then laughed when he just spaced out and completely lost where we were. More than once. "Sorry man, I'm tired and spacin out." It also affects me on a much higher level with what it's doing to society. There are an unbelievable amount of kids just hanging around the streets where I work, just getting burnt out and doing nothing. You can say all you want regarding that having to do with the individual, but I swear to you a lot of these kids were OK before they were getting high every day. It's the exception, and I'm sure there's a handful, who aren't affected in a negative way. I can get long winded about how others pot smoking affects me, but I want to move and address other things.

The gateway drug. Yeah, it's cliche, and it's been laughed at for decades, but I completely disagree with people who say it's bull. Or the same as alcohol. In order to buy and smoke weed, you have to cross a line. The legal line. You have to buy it through a dealer and those dealers are more often than not selling other drugs. If not, they can offer easy access to them. The door is open, and when kids get bored with pot and just want to go a little further, they do. Its readily available, and they don't have to think too much about it, go out finding source for it, etc. Discount it if you like, but it's a fact.

Last note for now is that while pot "seems" harmless to the countless people who are smoking it on a regular basis, and while it definitely affects people differently, there is no denying that after frequent use some people pay severely in later life. After the damage is done. There is such a thing as marijuana induced schizophrenia. I've seen it. I've also seen many people who wound up with panic and anxiety disorders as a direct result of their smoking pot. Depression is another common side affect. And lots of these things are easily written off as caused by something else. Pot not even being brought into the equation because, well, people aren't going to want to stop.

As for being addictive that's tricky. I don't believe there's any known physical addiction, but I'm certain people get addicted to it same as they can to other drugs, or obsessive behavior. People with emphysema take cigarettes to their graves, and trust me it's not an addiction to nicotine that's killing them. If it were, the gum and patches would work. There are marijuana addicts meetings (MAA) all over the US that will tell you differently if you tell them they aren't addicted. Addiction is next to impossible to define however. The clearest definition for someone would probably come only if they had a good reason to stop smoking, and found they couldn't. Most pot smokers feel the benefits outweigh any of the hazards so there's little if any motivation to investigating whether they're addicted or not. In my opinion someone smoking 2X a week has an addiction. Especially if they're putting their job at risk (which in most cases they are), and even more so if they have families that they want to have healthy relationships with. I think that getting busted for pot would probably have an all round negative affect for the loved ones sourrounding a pot smoker. A teacher I know was suspended from work for year pending hearings because she was in a car accident and pot was found in the car.

Post is getting too long so I'll cut it for now.

Where I live pot is pretty much legal. I have a card. I'm allowed to possess it. So your reasoning behind it being a gateway drug kind of loses water in this aspect. In fact, I know a lot of people who have never tried pot, but will do cocaine, and harder drugs at the drop of a hat. Still with that said, smoke pot a couple times a week and drink a couple times a week and then tell me which one is harsher. If you've never tried it, you really don't have any basis other than your outside observations to come to your conclusions. If you think that someone who smokes twice a week is an addict then there's really no point arguing with you. Sounds like you have your mind made up, even though you opened this thread on the premise that you were open for discussion on it.

My police friends actually advised me to get the card so that I'm protected. Still, with all that said, I rarely leave the house with it. I never go to work high. Even though I can legally possess it, it doesn't mean I can drive on it, not do I want to invite a confrontation with a police officer where I have show my card. I have the same policy with alcohol. I'm responsible with it.

As far as people getting paranoid and becoming schizophrenic, I would say that while this may be true, there's a much higher risk of this with amphetamines than marijuana. Still, if someone is paranoid after getting high, then they're smoking too much, and or marijuana might not be something their body can handle, like some people can't handle alcohol. Just as with alcohol you can take too much (it won't kill you, but it might make you paranoid or sleepy). However, If you compare it to alcohol (which is legal) when you drink too much you risk death.

Anyway, I'm just going to agree to disagree, however I will agree that it's not good for your students to be smoking pot if it's having an adverse affect on their lives.
 

When I was in high school there was a near-by creek where people would just go to smoke and hang out, and I met tons of cool people down there, people always willing to smoke out a stranger and just joke and horse around. And NEVER did I ever see any type of fight, argument, or general ill will, where if you were to go to a party, there were always all kinds of fights, s*** talking, and general chest pounding and catiness, and were always fueled by alcohol.

So say what you will, I'd rather chill with the stoners than the drunks anyday.
 
How about almost everything associated with the long journey we call human existance? Artists, writers, religion, social ceremonies, etc, bla, bla, bla......Do you think Leonardo Da Vinci, Shakespeare, Monet and a million other important figures in history didn't use drugs?
Lots of wonderful, great things happened because humans altered their minds.
I guess that's one perception of it; however, are we talking about what other people's drug use has done for us? Or what it has done to/for them?

I'm not sure how you know that these historical figures were drug users. Also, those drugs were not illegal then. Personally, I don't discount the effect legality/illegality has on the experience of the drug use. Illegal drug use requires secrecy, risk, etc. so it is necessarily accompanied by some level of fear and/or anxiety. By the very nature of that, it doesn't allow the user to enjoy the experience in total and complete freedom. That may not have a major impact, but I think it does "flavor" the experience to some extent even if on a subconscious level. What does that mean? Different things for different people...but in the end, there is a negative shadow cast on the whole thing. The point is, I don't know that drug use by historical figures can be use as a solid argument for non-medicinal drug use today.

Was it DaVinci or Van Gogh who cut off his ear and mailed it some a woman?...The question is OT but I was just wondering.
 
...Also, I don't know where you get the idea that drug use is often started because of spiritual problems. You might need to explain that more.
I understand that you might find my comment/opinion confusing. I probably could have left it out of my post. Reason being that for me to answer your question would require lengthy posts that would certainly voilate TB rules. That is why I left it at the suggestion that people "check themselves" as in, take a close look inside yourself and at your life and find out what motivates you. I'd love to go into it more but I can't for fear of voilating TB rules. I will end this by saying that I don't believe that we can separate drug use from spirituality/religion and be 100% honest with ourselves and in our examination of the topic.

I'm not here to preach...just dropping a not-so-subtle hint to encourage people to take a quiet moment to examine their lives and motives.