Can we talk about marijuana?

[Devils Advocate]

It appears to me that you want to present your opinions as facts. Judging from your posts, they should consider you as one of "them"; you are.

Or maybe I'm someone who's experienced the harm it can do, and want to help them avoid it. Seems you've made your mind up also. Only on the other side. As for me being one of them, if ya knew me, you'd feel differently. I'm far from being one of them.

Sorry that it sucks for you guys that I'm going to be spreading all this propoganda that pot and drugs are dangerous.

 

[Devils Advocate]

I agree however the op didnt start this thread for enlightenment. Their mind is made up. The purpose is to practice rebutting the counter arguments you all are presenting. Most of you are wasting your time here.

Op i realize you have a job to do but at least be open to learning things you may not fully understand. Opinions are not necessarily facts.

Wow. I'm reading through this stuff more quickly than I should, and missing some stuff, but I assure you I'm not trolling. Do you guys think I'm here to have you change my mind and suddenly think I was mistaken and that pot is a good thing to do? A lot is being said about MY opinions, but all I'm hearing from the other side are YOUR opinions. I think I was pretty clear from the getgo that I wanted to hear the arguments I would be coming up against. I think this thread is very much serving it's purpose.

Also, I'm hearing your arguments. I'm hearing what you all think and reading the links that I can. I'm not even arguing them. You guys are arguing any point I make. And I'm simply defending the statements I made in the initial post. I could jump all over the van gogh and other stuff in here. I'm not.

I'd like to keep this cool if we continue with it. If not I shall disappear and make those defending their weed happy. I pretty much got what I came here for. Thanks. For real.

 

[Rage1331]

Was it DaVinci or Van Gogh who cut off his ear and mailed it some a woman?...The question is OT but I was just wondering.

Vincent Van Gogh cut off a piece of his ear after a night of drinking absinthe and attempting to harm one of his friends with a blade (the same one he used to cut himself later that night). Some people believe he was poisoned at the pub and suffered a TLE (Temporal Lobe Epilepsy) seizure.

____________


There are some interesting conversations going on in here, and I could talk for hours on the subject, but as this is a touchy topic (to say the least) and I will stay out of it for the most part.

I just want to point one thing out: Cannabis is the words most useful plant. Industrial beats out the medicinal variant, but both are extremely useful, the former in a vast number of fields.
FACTS OF THE WORLDS MOST USEFUL PLANT

 

[MJ5150]

If there really are medicinal benefits in marijuana, then it would make sense to allow it to be dispensed under the same guidelines other medications are.

The problem I have is when I see someone using, talking about the medical benefits, or getting marijuana for medical purposes, they look like a hippie from the 70's or a stoner. Then they always want to smoke it. Many of the people say they need it for anxiety or to help them relax. So from what I can tell, it just looks like people who want to smoke pot have found a few doctors who bought into the medical reports, and are willing to prescribe it.

Just my opinion folks from personal experience. That's all.

-Mike

 

[Munjibunga]

Does spirituality have to be about God?

Struggling with words here, but I thought TF's point was how many humans need to take substances in order to manage their own personal sorrow or inhibitions. I think it's an interesting question. It can surely embrace one's own internal spirit....doesn't have to be about some external god or gods.

Dunno if it is straying too far from OPs goal here.....

No, I guess. My point is that "spirituality" is a throw-away term. It means nothing because it means anything. What in the world is one's "internal spirit"? Do you think anyone knows what you mean by that?

 

[Turock]

Sorry that it sucks for you guys that I'm going to be spreading all this propoganda that pot and drugs are dangerous.

Yeah, because once you teach them about how dangerous pot is (addiction, ruins lives, etc...), and they know that is mostly BS, they aren't going to believe you about the really dangerous drugs either. That's what sucks.

 

[Munjibunga]

I've met some of my closest friends from going out to parties, meeting people, and drinking with them for a night. I've met a number of girlfriends the same way as well. These are people who have been positive influences in my life. We don't always have to be inebriated to have a good time. In fact, I'd estimate that 95% of the time we spend together is done so in a sober state of mind; but a lot of these relationships started through going out and sharing a beer with one another. That's not to say all or even most my relationships start this way, but I can guarantee you that I would of missed out on some really good friends had I not been fond of the drink. So yes, drugs (in this case alcohol) can have POSITIVE effects on people who use it with care and moderation.

Now explain to me how drug use starts through some sort of spiritual disturbance because I don't see it.

Ridiculous. You're attributing a chance meeting to the fact that your common connection is drugs? Or are you saying that you have an inherent social ineptitude that is masked by being under the influence of drugs? My experience has be the opposite. I generally am not attracted to people who take drugs or drink alcohol to excess.

 

[Schlyder]

If you want an unbiased report about cannabis I suggest you read this.

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This is the summary of the Senate Committee's study. You can read the entire study if you want more detail from witnesses, who presented to the committee, and all the studies and reports the Senate Committee examined. The Conclusions start on page 35.
I hope you find your reading enjoyable.

 

[Lee H]

this topic is far more subjective that most people wish to believe.

I have noticed a tendency for misinformation, about the subject, that I believe is noteworthy. I have not seen any other subject so wrought with opinion being given as unbiased fact. Look above. Someone provides a link to a site claiming that marijuana is the most useful plant. Obviously that is relative and based on the opinion off the author, but those supporting legalization will present it as completely factual...
The problem with this is that much of the so called information out there is posted by marijuana users, for the purpose of supporting their own interests. Often this "information" is manipulated by teens (the fastest growing segment of marijuana users) who think it is a big joke to do this, and fool everyone. There is one such instance that comes readily to mind, and it is found on almost every pro marijuana website on the net. There is a list comparing causes of deaths in America, with cigarettes up near the top, alcohol, aspirin, tylenol, even peanuts, then marijuana at the bottom with zero deaths. The AMA categorically states that this is untrue. The list was compiled, but some jokester later added marijuana at the end. it would be kind of funny, IF it were not believed and portrayed as genuine medical evidence instead of a joke...

Just for the record, the CMA (California Medial Association) has recommended that it be legalized, regulated and taxed. They did NOT do so because of medicinal value or because it was harmless. The truth is that they found exactly the opposite. They called it "folk medicine" with limited if any medicinal value. Their rational behind decriminalization was that removing it from the federal section one intoxicant list made it legal for the government to give grants to study it as an epidemic, as well as studying addiction treatment options

 

[Devils Advocate]

If you want an unbiased report about cannabis I suggest you read this.

Link Removed

This is the summary of the Senate Committee's study. You can read the entire study if you want more detail from witnesses, who presented to the committee, and all the studies and reports the Senate Committee examined. The Conclusions start on page 35.
I hope you find your reading enjoyable.

Could you please summarize it for me since I have a show tonight and other responsibilities tomorrow. I will most likely read the entire thing, but don't have the time nor head for it right now.

 

[Rage1331]

this topic is far more subjective that most people wish to believe.

I have noticed a tendency for misinformation, about the subject, that I believe is noteworthy. I have not seen any other subject so wrought with opinion being given as unbiased fact. Look above. Someone provides a link to a site claiming that marijuana is the most useful plant. Obviously that is relative and based on the opinion off the author, but those supporting legalization will present it as completely factual...
The problem with this is that much of the so called information out there is posted by marijuana users, for the purpose of supporting their own interests. Often this "information" is manipulated by teens (the fastest growing segment of marijuana users) who think it is a big joke to do this, and fool everyone. There is one such instance that comes readily to mind, and it is found on almost every pro marijuana website on the net. There is a list comparing causes of deaths in America, with cigarettes up near the top, alcohol, aspirin, tylenol, even peanuts, then marijuana at the bottom with zero deaths. The AMA categorically states that this is untrue. The list was compiled, but some jokester later added marijuana at the end. it would be kind of funny, IF it were not believed and portrayed as genuine medical evidence instead of a joke...

Just for the record, the CMA (California Medial Association) has recommended that it be legalized, regulated and taxed. They did NOT do so because of medicinal value or because it was harmless. The truth is that they found exactly the opposite. They called it "folk medicine" with limited if any medicinal value. Their rational behind decriminalization was that removing it from the federal section one intoxicant list made it legal for the government to give grants to study it as an epidemic, as well as studying addiction treatment options

FYI the link above is solely about industrial hemp. Maybe you should have read it.

 

[Turock]

The problem with this is that much of the so called information out there is posted by marijuana users, for the purpose of supporting their own interests. Often this "information" is manipulated by teens (the fastest growing segment of marijuana users) who think it is a big joke to do this, and fool everyone. There is one such instance that comes readily to mind, and it is found on almost every pro marijuana website on the net. There is a list comparing causes of deaths in America, with cigarettes up near the top, alcohol, aspirin, tylenol, even peanuts, then marijuana at the bottom with zero deaths. The AMA categorically states that this is untrue. The list was compiled, but some jokester later added marijuana at the end. it would be kind of funny, IF it were not believed and portrayed as genuine medical evidence instead of a joke...

I saw this same information being presented on PBS years ago by doctors and scientists, hardly a "jokester". They had big signs with deaths from each drug, marijuana 0. Seems the name of the show was Johnny Marijuanaseed.

 

[Schlyder]

Read it when you have time. I'd hate to ruin anyone's reading enjoyment.

 

[Lee H]

FYI the link above is solely about industrial hemp. Maybe you should have read it.

there is a reason I responded as I did, but I made an assumption that the context would be understood. In that I will accept fault.

it has been highly publicized that there was a requirement in the original 13 American colonies that every farmer have one acre planted in cannabis. This has been used to promote the idea that it was smoked by our forfathers...
This is just such an instance when the content and context have been manipulated to suit the interests of those promoting marijuana. The factual basis for this is that each farmer was required to have one acre in hemp. Instead many planted that acre in tobacco, and the profits were more than the fine for not planting hemp

sorry for the confusion

 

[Schlyder]

For those who wish to get some good information. This is the Canadian Senate Report on Illegal Drugs.

Volume One
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Volume Two
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Volume Three
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Volume IV
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Summary
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The conclusions of the report can be found starting on page 35 of the summary.

And if you would like more reading... there is the 1970 Le Dain Commission Report. That was an even larger study. Which came to the same conclusions... 41 years ago.

 

[Rage1331]

there is a reason I responded as I did, but I made an assumption that the context would be understood. In that I will accept fault.

it has been highly publicized that there was a requirement in the original 13 American colonies that every farmer have one acre planted in cannabis. This has been used to promote the idea that it was smoked by our forfathers...
This is just such an instance when the content and context have been manipulated to suit the interests of those promoting marijuana. The factual basis for this is that each farmer was required to have one acre in hemp. Instead many planted that acre in tobacco, and the profits were more than the fine for not planting hemp

sorry for the confusion

Just to be clear, the statement "cannabis is the most useful plant on earth" is not an opinion, but a fact.

 

[Lee H]

Just to be clear, the statement "cannabis is the most useful plant on earth" is not an opinion, but a fact.

that is an opinion, until it can be proven definitively... I could say that algae is the most useful, because it can be refined as a motor fuel... my statement would be just as subjective as yours, but both could be argued successfully, in the proper context

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Ridiculous. You're attributing a chance meeting to the fact that your common connection is drugs? Or are you saying that you have an inherent social ineptitude that is masked by being under the influence of drugs? My experience has be the opposite. I generally am not attracted to people who take drugs or drink alcohol to excess.

Neither

First, where did I say that the people I'm attracted to do drugs (in this case alcohol) in excess? I actually said 'use it with care and moderation.' You would have known that had you actually read my post.

Second, they may of been chance meetings, but they never would of happened had I not enjoyed going out and having a few beers with people. I would of just stayed in my apartment for the night instead of going out. So the options are really a chance meeting or no meeting at all, in that case.

Third, I never said the common connection was drugs. The common connection could be anything from sports teams, to movies, to music, to basically anything. The only place where drugs come into the picture (again, alcohol just to be clear) was when we would meet at parties where *gasp* people drink Again, the people I talk to are the ones who have a few beers and hang out - not the sloppy drunks who drink till they're throwing up.

Fourth, I never said I had social inhibitions. Again, if you had actually read my post you would of seen that I said that most people I meet I meet when I'm completely sober.

Next time you respond to someone it might be worth your time to actually read what was written instead of using some knee-jerk response that isn't even related to what was actually said.

 

[Rage1331]

that is an opinion, until it can be proven definitively... I could say that algae is the most useful, because it can be refined as a motor fuel... my statement would be just as subjective as yours, but both could be argued successfully, in the proper context

You can argue this all day, and it really doesn't matter. I'm not going to state what I already said, or argue with you.

Hemp can also be refined as motor fuel, just so you know.

 

[Lee H]

You can argue this all day, and it really doesn't matter. I'm not going to state what I already said, or argue with you.

Hemp can also be refined as motor fuel, just so you know.

I realize that...I used algae as an example to demonstrate how subjective an opinion could be, not because I thought it was the single most useful plant...
The fact of the matter is that if you believe cannabis is the most useful plant, then it is like religion. No one can change your faith. That does not mean that your faith is without flaws, it just means that your faith is absolute to you