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Can you hear yourself onstage?

#21
Why mic a guitar...

Couple of reasons... first is bass is easier to DI.. DI is easier to produce

The second issue is that there is a ton more noticable difference in guitar "tonality"... much of the "bass tone" BS we read on TB is the product of guys who've not run sound.

In a a spectrum mix much of the bass nuances get lost.

A soundguy's battle is to get a band sounding OK as fast as possible then work on the important facets.

IN all sincerity the time put into bass is commonly best spent on the primary sweet spot instruments.
 
#26
bjabass said:
Have you tried boosting the mids? I LOVE my sound with the mids scooped when I'm playing alone, but that sound gets lost with the band. I run my EQ mostly flat and all of a sudden I can hear over the guitar and keys.
Click to expand...

This. It is funny some posters mentioned the guitar player using his bedroom tone at gigs. Well guess what the same thing applies to bassists. If you want your bass to be heard boost your mids and cut your lows. It may sound like crap that way at home but it will sound better with a band.
 
#27
Sleeping Giant said:
Recently during a sound check the landlord of the pub came to us and said the bass was too loud. My bass amp wasn't switched on! It was the guitarist and he still refuses to accept there is too much low end in his sound.
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jmattbassplaya said:
Fast forward to a month ago. "Oh! I also started figuring out live sounds and my keys player recently told me to cut bass out of my tone for the mix. I started doing it and it really helps our band breath and it opens up some space in the music. You should try to it in your band."

I starting falling out because I had told him that exact same thing two years before!
Click to expand...

This is very common I think... I ran into this at church a while back. It seemed like the bass was too loud. After cutting all the lows out of the 2 guitars at the board it made a huge difference, got rid of alot of mud.

Obviously if your guitarist is not going through the board you don't have this option, but it does prove your point.

Our main bass player also loves the super bottom heavy tone that sounds good (well I think it's OK anyway) on its own, but turns to mud in the mix. He had no definition to his tone. When I would hook up to his rig (Hartke HA4000 and Peavey 810) I would roll the D Bass all the way off and set the low at 0. I would forget to put them back and I finally think he started to leave them. Baby steps... We'll get there eventually. Hopefully not the 15 years you have had to deal with it.
 
#28
Sleeping Giant said:
The thing about lifting the speakers higher up on something loses the bass resonance with the floor.
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1. Putting your cabinet directly at ear level makes it easier to hear.

2. Many stages are hollow wood boxes. If you couple your cabinet to the floor of such a stage you can create all kinds of overtones and sympathetic resonance that muddies up your sound. Raising your cabinet will kill this making it easier to hear yourself. That bass resonance you feel is a good thing is probably at the core of your problem.
 
#29
This is a constant problem for me too.

But turning up is obviously not a solution. I often wonder if imagine not being able to hear myself. I ask the drummer and he seems okay with it....hmmm.

I will try raising the amp next time. One of the band elders believes it doesn't apply to bass....next gig I will tell him to piss off. I WILL raise that amp.
 
#31
What fixed it for me was running flat, mostly, and always fussing about the lows everyone else was playing. Guitar, keys, vocals, and especially the infernal bass drum were all too deep. I even stopped playing in the middle of a tune once, and no one even noticed. There was so much boomy bass drum that they didn't have room for a bass player. They'd fix it for awhile, but it would all go south again before long. I ultimately quit that band. I still help them out, just as a mercenary, but the sound is still a mess.

Keys can really be a problem, but a good pro keyboardist knows how to fit in with a bass player. If they don't, they aren't pro material. Same for a guitarist, but they are harder to convince.

Try eq'ing more flat and turn up a bit and see if that helps.
 
#32
Yes.
I tell most soundmen flat out, if you don't pump me up loud enough so I can hear thru the monitors, then Imma just turn my rig up. It's barely sweating right now, so it's your call my friend.
:):)
There's no point in even playing if you can't hear yourself onstage- because you know nobody in the front is gonna be able to... :rollno:
 
#35
Update from last night at the first gig of four this weekend...

I took advise from you guys and I set the eq flat and allowed a little more bottom end through the compressor. I added some middle as the gig went on and some high end where needed for the song where there is a lot of slapping :-)

I heard myself much better than usual but the sound lacked 'meat' which decreased the energy level of the band. Well it did from my point of view. I also turned down my volume as it was cutting through much better.

One thing I noticed was that the guitarist was oblivious to the changes. As a test in one song I played extra quiet and still the guitar player was in his own 'I am a rock god' bubble.

Our singer has bought some IEMs and they should arrive next week. She has developed the begginings of nodules due to straining too much.

Tonight I am playing a much bigger room and I will report back.

Thanks for your help.
 
#36
Our guitar player also has too much bass end coming from his amp. If you are running a P.A with Subs try a high pass filter on the guitarists channel on the desk, it works wonders. Before I did this I struggled with hearing myself even with my cab pointed at my head. It's very frustrating almost playing by sight, no enjoyment to be had doing that, you don't realise how much of your playing is done by ear until you can't hear yourself, horrible.
It is amazing how many musicians fail to understand the role their amps play in live sound and the changes they should adopt when a decent P.A system is introduced into the equation.
 
#39
I play with 2 guitard players and have finally convinced them that our sound is everything. They finally listened and turned down. They now have amp stands that tilt their cabs up so they can hear themselves better. One of them actually turned way down because he said he was blowing his head off. I smiled.

We play mostly smallish venues 300+/- ppl with PA support. I actuall have to use ear plugs cause it's too loud. IEM will definately help to hear yourself, but not if you have to turn yourself up in them just to drown out the guitard. I finally ended up using the ear plugs and have one all the way in and one half way in. It filters out just enough of the high end frequencies so I can hear eaverything but not too loud. No more ringing in my head. Good luck. Your hearing is your most important tool. Treat it with respect. Good luck.
 
#40
Even if you don't want to go as far as in-ear monitors, a good set of custom-molded ear plugs with high-end (such as ER) filters will allow for very even frequency response at lowered volume levels, eliminate the "white noise" factor in a loud environment, and help the bass to jump out at you clearly. I like the 15db filters, myself. Highly recommended, and there are plenty of threads on them on TB if you're looking for mor info.
 

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