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Cannot decide on an amp

Kedingerp

Kedingerp

Guest
Mar 6, 2017
8
5
Canuckistan
#1
Hey, first of all this is my first post. Been a long time reader but never registered.

Anyway so I bought a SVT 410 hlf used for 300 CDN (220 USD) and I need to find an amp. The cab is rated at 500rms 1000 watt peak and is wired at 4 ohms.

The other day I tried out the Mesa d800, pf500, and a gk mb500.

Ampeg pf500 sounded a bit muddy and had a warm tone to it. The fan on it was also noticeably loud. It's also the cheapest running at $550 ($410 USD). I also like the fact that it has a compressor built right into it.

The Mesa d800 sounded like a better version of the pf500 lol more of a tight warm punchy tone. But it's also the most expensive as its about $1000 CND ($750 USD) with tax.

The GKmb500 definitely had a brighter sound right off the bat. I didn't get much time to play around with the knobs on this one though. I also wasn't really a big fan of the G.I.V.E boost knob. Buttt I may have just had the wrong settings for it to sound good.

In my opinion, all these amps sound good so its difficult to choose which one.

I play in a death metal band (tuned drop C) so I want something that I can cut through 2 loud distorted guitars and a heavy hitting drummer. I also play a lot of punk rock tunes. My budget is $1000 ($750 USD) and under... Preferably under lol So does anyone have any suggestions on any other amps or what amp you prefer in that price range?

Also second question, the guy at the guitar shop said the mesa d800 would not over power my svt 410 hlf. Is that true? I mean my cab is rated at 500 rms so wouldn't 800 watts damage the speakers?

Thanks for reading
 
#3
Dogbertday said:
Go back and keep trying them.

Based on what you posted, you like yhe Mesa most. Get the one that sounds best and is within budget, you'll regret it if you save a little money, but dont like your tone
Click to expand...

This. Buy the best for you within what you can afford, and you'll cry once and then be happy. Whereas settling to save a few bucks that you didn't need to save will leave you unhappy with your gear, even if it lessens the initial pain to your bank account.
 
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#6
Korladis said:
If you want to "cut through," you bought the wrong cab.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I've been in several metal bands. The one thing I wish I understood then was the difference between ported and sealed cabs, as it was never explained to me correctly.

I'll assume you want to keep the Ampeg cab. Since it is less than ideal, you'll need to make up for it in other ways. I'd rule the PF500 out. I own it myself and I think it's great, but I don't play metal anymore. It would be a contender if you had a sealed cab, but with your HLF (I use the 610hlf) it'll be too muddy and uncontrolled in the low end.

The D800 is a great head, and would compliment metal well. It has a more pleasing overdrive tone than the other two. Again, the cab can make this head seem too deep and loose in the low end.

The GK is the tightest sounding head of the 3, even with the 410hlf. It has a very clean, usable tone. The boost stuff wouldn't be beneficial for metal, where tight, articulate notes are almost necessity.

Regardless of the choice, to get the most out of the cab, you really should have a high pass filter, such as the Fdeck hpf. Clipping off the lower end bass will be a tremendous benefit to cutting through the mix. It sounds counterintuitive to remove bass frequencies from the bass guitar, but it's a very successful tool.
 
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#7
blubass said:
I agree with this. I've been in several metal bands. The one thing I wish I understood then was the difference between ported and sealed cabs, as it was never explained to me correctly.

I'll assume you want to keep the Ampeg cab. Since it is less than ideal, you'll need to make up for it in other ways. I'd rule the PF500 out. I own it myself and I think it's great, but I don't play metal anymore.

The D800 is a great head, and would compliment metal well. It has a more pleasing overdrive tone than the other two.

The GK is the tightest sounding head of the 3, with a very clean, usable tone. The boost stuff wouldn't be beneficial for metal, where tight, articulate notes are almost necessity.

Regardless of the choice, to get the most out of the cab, you really should have a high pass filter, such as the Fdeck hpf. Clipping off the lower end bass will be a tremendous benefit to cutting through the mix. It sounds counterintuitive to remove bass frequencies from the bass guitar, but it's a very successful tool.
Click to expand...
I kinda disagree with the boost function not being useful. When my D-180 was in the shop, I used my drummer's GK and ran the boost high enough to be noticeable to get a similar sound to the overdrive I normally get from my amp.

The D800 I agree would be a great choice, though. So would GK.
 
#8
Korladis said:
I kinda disagree with the boost function not being useful. When my D-180 was in the shop, I used my drummer's GK and ran the boost high enough to be noticeable to get a similar sound to the overdrive I normally get from my amp.

The D800 I agree would be a great choice, though. So would GK.
Click to expand...

The boost with my 1001rb ll adds a lot of bass before it's usable, usually creating a lot of mud and lack of definition through the 610hlf. With a sealed cab.... different story. That's been my experience anyway.
 
#10
There are, if I remember rightly, a couple of different versions of the 410 HLF. @JimmyM might be able to help with this. At any rate, I've played through some that I liked more than others (don't have a ton of experience with those cabs, but I've played through a few of them on different occasions). I've also spent a fair amount of time playing through a PR-1832HE (more experience with this one), the big, four-way, ported monster that Ampeg made for Victor Wooten and Steve Bailey back in the Bass Extremes days.

In my experience, both of those cabs benefit from a head that will keep a tight rein on the woofers -- muscle and voicing are both important. A friend brought his Sunn tube head to the club with the 1832 once and it was a wall of mud no matter what was done with the EQ. A lovely amp, but the wrong head for that cab and its 18" woofer in a ported box. My Markbass F500, which was great with my efficient 2x12, was only so-so with that cab. My Genz GBE 1200 (big lead sled) was deadly -- articulate, cutting, and impactful -- with that cab. I've also heard a GBE 750 used to great effect with a 410 HLF. I believe they'd have worked well in a metal context. Both of those heads are voiced somewhat "lean and mean" and have a variable HPF and a big transformer -- nice, tight speaker control with those cabs.

If you can live with a lead sled atop the HLF (i.e. carting both around), I'd think that there would be a number of inexpensive amps that would work well. Probably a number of the small, Class D heads would, as well -- I don't think you'd get quite the same feeling of control and impact as with a good transformer-based amp (and, yes, I've played several besides the F500), but I could see a good 800-Watt-class micro working well with that cab (and you seem to have found that to be the case). The GK MB800 and Ampeg PF800 would be more apples-to-apples comparisons with the Mesa D800.

As for blowing the cab, you can do that with a 500 Watt head if you're careless about it, and you can run an 800 Watt head safely. I think you'd get better dynamics at gig volume with the 800 Watt micros and that cab vs. the 500 Watt micros.

A variable HPF can be handy. If you really dig the d800 and you can swing it, you might consider the d800+ for that reason. FDeck HPF3 is nice (and adjustable -- I like mine). SFX micro-Thumpinator I've not used, but gets good reviews from folks here. Broughton on here makes an HPF/LPF pedal, I believe, but I don't know anything about it.

Good luck!
 
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#11
MarkA said:
There are, if I remember rightly, a couple of different versions of the 410 HLF. @JimmyM might be able to help with this.
Click to expand...
There are, with the more recent 410hlf's from about 2010 being much better and less woofy on the lows, and the Heritage 410hlf being the best of all. But since you already have the cab, not a problem.

At any rate, next time you try the PF500, I don't know if you did this but try dialing down the lows a bit. I've found those older 410hlf's will clean up and get tighter considerably if you do. The center of the bass knob on the PF500 and most Ampeg heads is 40 hz, which is an excellent frequency for dialing back the woof.
 
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#12
JimmyM said:
There are, with the more recent 410hlf's from about 2010 being much better and less woofy on the lows, and the Heritage 410hlf being the best of all. But since you already have the cab, not a problem.

At any rate, next time you try the PF500, I don't know if you did this but try dialing down the lows a bit. I've found those older 410hlf's will clean up and get tighter considerably if you do. The center of the bass knob on the PF500 and most Ampeg heads is 40 hz, which is an excellent frequency for dialing back the woof.
Click to expand...
Jimmy, as I mentioned, I've got less experience with the 410 HLF than the big 1832. I thought the GBE 750 (600 Watt @ 4 Ohms transformer amp) had plenty of power to drive it and stay dynamic. I haven't played the PF500 or PF800 except briefly in stores, but my experience with other class D heads leads me to lean toward the more powerful version. What are your thoughts on pairing one or the other with the 410 HLF (for loud, drop-tuned metal, in particular)?
 
#14
MarkA said:
Jimmy, as I mentioned, I've got less experience with the 410 HLF than the big 1832. I thought the GBE 750 (600 Watt @ 4 Ohms transformer amp) had plenty of power to drive it and stay dynamic. I haven't played the PF500 or PF800 except briefly in stores, but my experience with other class D heads leads me to lean toward the more powerful version. What are your thoughts on pairing one or the other with the 410 HLF (for loud, drop-tuned metal, in particular)?
Click to expand...
Definitely get more power if you can afford it, but if you can't, 500w is nothing to sneeze at :D
 
#16
Kedingerp said:
Hey, first of all this is my first post. Been a long time reader but never registered.

Anyway so I bought a SVT 410 hlf used for 300 CDN (220 USD) and I need to find an amp. The cab is rated at 500rms 1000 watt peak and is wired at 4 ohms.

The other day I tried out the Mesa d800, pf500, and a gk mb500.

Ampeg pf500 sounded a bit muddy and had a warm tone to it. The fan on it was also noticeably loud. It's also the cheapest running at $550 ($410 USD). I also like the fact that it has a compressor built right into it.

The Mesa d800 sounded like a better version of the pf500 lol more of a tight warm punchy tone. But it's also the most expensive as its about $1000 CND ($750 USD) with tax.

The GKmb500 definitely had a brighter sound right off the bat. I didn't get much time to play around with the knobs on this one though. I also wasn't really a big fan of the G.I.V.E boost knob. Buttt I may have just had the wrong settings for it to sound good.

In my opinion, all these amps sound good so its difficult to choose which one.

I play in a death metal band (tuned drop C) so I want something that I can cut through 2 loud distorted guitars and a heavy hitting drummer. I also play a lot of punk rock tunes. My budget is $1000 ($750 USD) and under... Preferably under lol So does anyone have any suggestions on any other amps or what amp you prefer in that price range?

Also second question, the guy at the guitar shop said the mesa d800 would not over power my svt 410 hlf. Is that true? I mean my cab is rated at 500 rms so wouldn't 800 watts damage the speakers?

Thanks for reading
Click to expand...

I suggest taking an Ampeg V-4B into account, as well, versus a PF500.
If you're lucky, you can get a B-stock one for under US$1000, though still over $750, I guess.
However, the EQ does a nice job on shaping the sound, and the tubes can deliver it really well, in my ears; so using it might help the 410 to cut through. Might be the same for the other amps, I don't know.

In any case, I hope you can borrow an amp from your GC, try it out on a rehearsal, and hear if it works in the band.
Good luck and have fun! \m/
 
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#17
I have to agree on running an Genz Benz GBE series through an 410hlf. This is one of the best heads I've ran through that cab. Tone for days. Very punchy with no problems cutting through the mix.
I would go with the mb500 over the pf500, personally. I've never tried the mesa amps though.
 
#18
Welcome out of the shadows!!!!!

I would take the cab to the music store where you tried the amps. Take your bass as well. If you are going to spend upwards of a thousand bucks they should allow you some flexibility and experimentation.
 
#20
two fingers said:
Welcome out of the shadows!!!!!

I would take the cab to the music store where you tried the amps. Take your bass as well. If you are going to spend upwards of a thousand bucks they should allow you some flexibility and experimentation.
Click to expand...

Might be a good first measure. But would you know, if it fits your band, then?
As @AztecViking suggested, borrowing an amp for a day from the GC allows you trying it in a rehearsal.
If you're serious with your band, then trying it with your band would be best, IMHO.
 

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