Double Bass Carbon Fiber French bow under $400

[thetaxmiser]

I've been at talkbass for quite a while but just now wandering to the DB part of the world. I bought a DB from a classmates father back in high school 50 years ago. Haven't played much at all over the decades. I gigged quite a bit on electric but now embarking on a home recording hobby. Time to revisit the DB for something different.

First, what a great forum. The amount of information and insight is incredible. Thanks in advance for any advice you may provide.

I've read a crazy amount of threads and am on the brink of ordering a bow. Before you ask, I don't have a teacher. I'm going to get a carbon fiber bow, under $400.

My choices:

Available at Gollihur:
Revelle Raven at $265
ARTIST $349

String Emporium:
Finale $365 (includes case and rosin)

Cincinnati Bass Cellar (my local shop)
Arcos Brasil Composite $385
They sell the Revelle as well at $350

I have a plywood bass (Antone Schuster). I'm going to get it restrung at the Bass Cellar in a month or two. I believe I have ancient spirocores on the Bass now and they are like bridge cables. No orchestral stuff for me. Jazz, folk, whatever, I'd like to learn to slap as well.

Any experience / reviews / comments on the above selections? Or is it a "flip a coin" situation.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

 

[AGCurry]

Can I assume you'll be new to bowing? If so, you don't know what you don't know. It's almost impossible for an "arco novice" to evaluate bows usefully. As we learn to use the bow, we gain that skill as well. It took me a couple of years before I could say with some certainty that "this bow is better than that bow."

Although the three companies you've named are all great, and any one of the bows you've listed will be adequate, you're fortunate to have the Bass Cellar as your local shop. There are sure to be bassists working there who can guide you in making a good choice. It's also nice to bring along your teacher or other experienced player to help. I suspect that the Bass Cellar will let you take a bow (or two or three) home with you on a trial basis; I wouldn't buy a bow without being able to play with it for a few days.

Moreover, you may want to look at bows after or at the same time you replace strings. "Hair on string" is the most fundamental piece of playing the double bass.

One last thing, and I say it with a helping spirit: Your statement that you don't have a teacher: I "got by" self-taught without a teacher for around 50 years ... because I didn't use the bow. If you don't plan on playing arco-centric music, why do you want to own a bow? Bowing is a whole discipline in itself, and you will not learn to do it properly by teaching yourself.

 

[thetaxmiser]

Thanks Andy.

I understand the value of a teacher. At this stage in my life I am responsible for the older generation, the younger generation and I own a business. Time for regular lessons just isn't in the cards. I value a teacher's time. If I don't have the time to make a solid commitment, I think it is disrespectful to engage with a teacher at this time. Plan is to muddle through on my own,. Maybe find someone who'll do occasional one off lessons.

Why a bow? I want to be able to play reasonably simple melodies, in tune, with passable tone. For my own pleasure as much as anything else. I want to have the basic tools to play whatever instrument I have. I like the sound of a bowed bass and want to incorporate it into my home recording hobby.

I understand where you're coming from regarding what I don't know. My favorite adage is "everything appears simple to the uninitiated". Since I'm going to buy one of the bows listed I wanted to be sure there wasn't an "Oh $hit, not that one!" in the bunch.

Again, thank you for responding.

 

[Ketbass]

Oh what the heck, here goes. @AGCurry is correct on all of his assumptions and I respect him a lot for that. But…
I am self taught on the double bass, though I started with a teacher, things got weird, I didn’t have the time to commit and quite frankly , I’m not a great student. Learning by doing is a standard I’ve lived by most of my life and has served me well both financially and musically. But, back to your thread. Cincinnat Bass Cellar is my local shop (if you consider driving 55minutes each way local). They are knowledgeable and a good bunch of guys who do good work, reasonably priced. But I also found them to be unhelpful in selecting a bass or finding a bow. Yes they sell both, but really cater to the professional group, not so much the amateurs like myself.

So, if you’re going in on new strings, buy local but do it yourself. It’s not difficult done one at time to keep tension and not lose the sound post. Also, I would highly recommend a German bow if you’re going it alone. If you’re older, the French bow hold can be hard on the arthritis to learn and hold properly. If you’re dying for a carbon fiber French bow, I have a Finale. It’s really nice, sounds good but it is a French bow hold. PM me and we can meet up and you can try it out. There are also a lot of YouTube videos addressing bow holds and getting started if you’re not going to go full orchestra and just use it for intonation work. That’s what I do and it’s fine. I have also used the bow in folk groups and simple stuff on my own compositions. So this has been my experience and I’m sure a lot of others can chime in with their takes. YMMV

 

[Mark_T]

I've been at talkbass for quite a while but just now wandering to the DB part of the world. I bought a DB from a classmates father back in high school 50 years ago. Haven't played much at all over the decades. I gigged quite a bit on electric but now embarking on a home recording hobby. Time to revisit the DB for something different.

First, what a great forum. The amount of information and insight is incredible. Thanks in advance for any advice you may provide.

I've read a crazy amount of threads and am on the brink of ordering a bow. Before you ask, I don't have a teacher. I'm going to get a carbon fiber bow, under $400.

My choices:

Available at Gollihur:
Revelle Raven at $265
ARTIST $349

String Emporium:
Finale $365 (includes case and rosin)

Cincinnati Bass Cellar (my local shop)
Arcos Brasil Composite $385
They sell the Revelle as well at $350

I have a plywood bass (Antone Schuster). I'm going to get it restrung at the Bass Cellar in a month or two. I believe I have ancient spirocores on the Bass now and they are like bridge cables. No orchestral stuff for me. Jazz, folk, whatever, I'd like to learn to slap as well.

Any experience / reviews / comments on the above selections? Or is it a "flip a coin" situation.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

If you can go to the Bass Cellar, just buy from them. I like and have shopped at Gollihur, String Emporium, and the Bass Cellar, and I'd send people to any of them with confidence. But you can't really beat buying local and trying from a shop where people will get to know you and take care of you.

I have owned a Finale from the String Emporium folks. It was about what you'd expect for a bow at that price point. It had decent hair and balance and grabbed the strings pretty well. It sounded a little contained and nasal, but not beyond the point of usability.

I also had a VingoBow Rainbow Bouncy that was of similar quality. I don't love recommending a cheap eBay bow over a real shop, but that one was pretty solid for the price.

 

[Don Hergert]

I'm not an arco expert, but I practice it regularly and occasionally bow in a gig. At 70, I'm only going on my 8th year with double bass...

I'd second the VingoBow. I bought an "Advanced" French with black hair (from Amazon) and was pleasantly surprised, it's actually pretty nice. I have another more expensive (~$350) CF French bow -- from Germany -- and I prefer the VingoBow. It was around $100 but it's from China so prices may have changed in the last few months.

I'd also second the thought about arthritic hands. I still use a French bow, but due to RA I've had to modify my thumb posture in my bow hold in order to use it -- my current hold works pretty nicely but probably doesn't look proper. I have not moved to a German bow, but many people do prefer them.

Regarding teachers, some of us just are strong autodidacts, being a student doesn't work for everyone. Age also has an effect on progress. It's very important to set your goals according to your real limitations; it takes decades to master any musical instrument...

But also, be aware that there are some very real injury possibilities with playing a double bass using the wrong postures. That is where a few lessons to start out the right way might be worth while. Not necessarily a long term commitment.

I wish you the best!

 

[T_Bone_TL]

As a primarily folk/celtic player, who uses a bow extensively, I found the French bow far more natural to use, and gave up on a German bow that was passed on to me as it simply didn't work for me, my body mechanics, whatever. When I get out to see orchestras I have a habit of trying to note how the bass section chooses to go, and in most cases it's a mixture, so I don't think either one is "wrong" even though German seems to be far more popular - on TalkBass.

I found what is referred to over in the Jazz section (I think that's where that discussion happened) as the "Italian" grip to generally work best for holding the French bow. For me. The "normal" French grip hurt. Don't keep doing things that hurt.

I'm quite clear on "what works best for me may not be what works for you" and vice versa. My CF bow is a no-name from sleazeBay that I couldn't really direct you how to find if you wanted the exact thing, if the exact thing is even being made 6-7 years later. Last I looked the seller was still selling stuff, but not bows. Probably they had nothing to do with making it. Good stick, questionable head mortise work, eyelet needed about 1-1/2 turns tightening, working on it myself is not scary because it was $53. The Vingobows seem like a fairly similar thing but perhaps with a bit more consistency of being able to find the same thing years later as it's an actual brand. Perhaps better quality as well, don't know. Since I reworked the head mortise and cut a new plug, my bow has been working fine.

Be prepared to work through a few months of sounding simply awful, which is pretty typical, teacher or not, when starting to bow. You just need to get through that phase.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

I got the Vingo Rainbow Bouncy about a month ago and i like it alot but going back to my Codabow Revelation - it's not such a bad stick. Still a tiny bit more one-dimensional but since these are all CF sticks, the differences are marginal. I got a fresh cake of Pops and man it mades a big difference on the Revelation.

At this point, I would just pick one considering the weight. Seems like anything around 140g is general use for orchestral given what I've read. Heavier if you're a section player. Go lighter if your soloing.

As for learning from teachers and what not, I would say that I'm largely self-taught but not really. Similarly as the OP, I don't have time to go take a lesson and can only practice at the wee hours of the night.

I've been working through all the David Allen Moore courses on German bow as well as Technique Transformer on Discover Double Bass. I would consider DAM as my teacher lol. I highly recommend these courses if you're going to go at it yourself. Follow everything he says.

 

[thetaxmiser]

Thanks for all your responses. I ordered a Vingo French bow and a couple of different rosins from Amazon. I have an inexpensive German bow around here so I'm ready to experiment. I'm using the Discover Double Bass courses for guidance.

 

[TDAN]

Welp, inspired by this thread and interested in trying German bow, I ordered the top level German Vingobow option though their Amazon store for about $120. The wood fittings are wood and the screw works well, black hair picked up rosin well and got making a pleasing sound pretty quickly.

I have only used one other German bow and am not really qualified to have an opinion about how this one stacks up but it seems at least as nice as the French bow I bought from String Emporium for about $250 but definitely less nice than the one I got from @Mark_T

More than anything, I think the key takeaway is that I like German bow About to spend much more on learning how to use the stick than I did buying it

 

[Mark_T]

Welp, inspired by this thread and interested in trying German bow, I ordered the top level German Vingobow option though their Amazon store for about $120. The wood fittings are wood and the screw works well, black hair picked up rosin well and got making a pleasing sound pretty quickly.

I have only used one other German bow and am not really qualified to have an opinion about how this one stacks up but it seems at least as nice as the French bow I bought from String Emporium for about $250 but definitely less nice than the one I got from @Mark_T

More than anything, I think the key takeaway is that I like German bow About to spend much more on learning how to use the stick than I did buying it

I also have gone over to the Deutsch side. The selling point for me is that my right hand is way less tense that way. There are downsides, yes, but I'm still pretty solid at French and am keeping my best French bow for now as a backup in case I ever need it, but I've been squarely German for a little over a year now.

 

[TDAN]

I also have gone over to the Deutsch side. The selling point for me is that my right hand is way less tense that way. There are downsides, yes, but I'm still pretty solid at French and am keeping my best French bow for now as a backup in case I ever need it, but I've been squarely German for a little over a year now.

I’m having fun so far, looking forward to digging into it. Mechanics will take a little work but it seems like a good fit for all the klezmer rhythm work

Cool to be able to try it out on a whim and pick up a workable bow for about the cost of a string