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Carol Kaye tidbit
- Thread starter MEKer
- Start date
I'm sure I am gonna sound like a complete fool for this, but, what is she talking about when she talks about chordal notes as opposed to scales? I am tempted to buy a book or two, but thought I'd ask here first.
She was hawt back in the day.
And she knows a helluva lot about theory.
Plus she's a damn fine bassist, still.
Good teacher too.
She should write a book (autobio), if she hasnt already.
S.j
And she knows a helluva lot about theory.
Plus she's a damn fine bassist, still.
Good teacher too.
She should write a book (autobio), if she hasnt already.
S.j
- May 30, 2000
- 4,707
- 257
- Disclosures
- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
Chordal notes, the notes in a chord, CMaj7 = C E G B, Dmin7 = D F A C, Emin7 = E G B D, etc...
- May 30, 2000
- 4,707
- 257
- Disclosures
- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
You know JimmyM, I wonder how it would be if you had your own board? Would there ever be any ranting by you on it? Would you be absolutely corteous to every living soul even if you thought they were trying to take a swipe at you?
I can kind of understand her having a hair trigger when it comes to the whole motown thing and the woman is opinionated and most opinionated people that I know don't get along with some people in public and I'm sure that happens on line as well.
I wonder if Carol Kaye is a big Buzz Feiten fan?
I'm guessing she's more into those True Temperament necks.
I'm guessing she's more into those True Temperament necks.
I can make a pretty good guess at what this is but please explain
Oh, I'd definitely rant. But I wouldn't rant about half the stuff she rants about. And I certainly wouldn't say someone has no character if they say they would play someone else's bass on a session. And I fail to see where I took a swipe at her with that question.You know JimmyM, I wonder how it would be if you had your own board? Would there ever be any ranting by you on it? Would you be absolutely corteous to every living soul even if you thought they were trying to take a swipe at you?
I can kind of understand her having a hair trigger when it comes to the whole motown thing and the woman is opinionated and most opinionated people that I know don't get along with some people in public and I'm sure that happens on line as well.
Sorry, Phil...sometimes you're really good at it, but today, your attempt at devil's advocate is epic fail
Carol doesn't like to use scales or modes to decide what to play. She likes using the chords entirely, and not bothering with trying to figure out what modes or scales to play over them. This isn't to say that she only uses chord tones, but she uses the chords to figure out what to play instead of trying to figure out what scales go with each chord. She is very much against what's known as "scale running," where a lot of people who use modes and scales sound like they're playing modes and scales in their performances.
And though Carol and I don't get along anymore, I 100% agree with her. I think scale running is bush league, and the chordal approach is much better suited to playing jazz.
LilRay
Commercial User
- Dec 27, 2007
- 4,166
- 39
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- Owner: Cockeyed Cow Custom Leathercraft
If she has a crummy attitude, I can understand that but to berate somebody over asking a genuine question is abhorrent. Utterly insane IMO. AND she has taught enough folks that I can learn variants of her approach without supporting her directly with one red cent.
I understand to get asked the controversial stuff constantly gets old but you can refer someone to a place where you've given your opinion on all of that. But she'd rather get rude and disclude rather than include.
You get no respect from me with a holier than thou attitude. Boastful of your accomplishments is one thing. Downright evil is another matter entirely.
Kind of childish an immature for someone of 70+ years.
God Bless, Ray
I understand to get asked the controversial stuff constantly gets old but you can refer someone to a place where you've given your opinion on all of that. But she'd rather get rude and disclude rather than include.
You get no respect from me with a holier than thou attitude. Boastful of your accomplishments is one thing. Downright evil is another matter entirely.
Kind of childish an immature for someone of 70+ years.
God Bless, Ray
Well, since I play by ear and have no real knowledge of scales, I guess I follow the chord? I am gonna pick up a couple books and do a little learning.
I have a question for you guys. I just got some of her instructional materials today. One of the things she teaches is using the pinky for 3rd or 4th fret fingerings as opposed to the one fret per finger thing I learned as a guitarist, and still do as a bassist. However, after watching her thumb pivoting thing I see she actually gets a pretty wicked stretch with her technique. Do any of you play bass that way? Btw, a previous post said the material was disorganized and confusing. I didn't find that to be the case at all. There was a few pages of promotional stuff, but the sheet music, etc. was all together. The dvd looks like it was shot in the 70's though, maybe early 80's. Different production value than the stuff nowadays. I am liking it so far .
I usually follow the chord, yes, then I make note choices depending on the key of the song, the chords immediately before and after the one I'm on, and what sounds good to my ear. You can make any note sound good against any chord as long as you pay attention to the context of the song.
You might want to read the big thread on fingering 1-2-4 in the Technique forum. The conclusion everyone seems to agree on is that 1-2-4 is fine, but one finger per fret and the 5-fret stretch will be a little more versatile when you need it. Carol seems to think using OFPF on the lowest frets will cause injury, but I've got tiny baby hands and never had a problem. You just have to learn the proper technique.
That was me.
Yep, my first package was a complete mess, totally disorganized and had most of the music ruined by rain to boot! And a HUGE amount of PR stuff was included.
To be fair, I contacted her and told her about the incident which included a picture which was ruined. I told her I could dry the music out and rescan it for a clean copy , but asked for a clean picture. She was at first more than understanding, and I was really impressed.
A day or so later she let me know that she was having everything except the DVD's and CD's resent and was double wrapped just in case, which was great. Then she told me that she had been doing this for ages and had sent out literally 1000's of packages, and I was the ONLY person to EVER have a problem
.I tried to be polite and told her that I depended on rural carriers to deliver my mail, plus we had alot of storms that week. She said she knew all about rural carriers. And I told her I would just have to be honored that I managed to be a first for the great Carol Kaye.
I think that thought that was funny(hope so), I then order more books that I didn't really need and her big pack of picks(which I do like)just because I felt like she thought I was trying to get something for nothing. Maybe in her shoes, I would have felt the same way, or maybe I just took it wrong, anyway...Last time I talked to her I think we were on good terms.So the next package didn't have a huge unreasonable amount of PR stuff and she was generous enough to have all the music sent again along with a new picture.
Somebody else packs this stuff and mails it for her, and I think they may have just gotten in a big rush with the first package, and it was just my bad luck that the rain messed it up. So she's not directly at fault for any of it.
I want to be clear, her methods work and she gives you alot of info for your money. I don't feel ripped off at all. Like I also said in a previous post, she reminds me of a piano teacher I had, and my grandmother so I don't expect a slick product with fresh pretty packaging, just the correct info, and she gives that as far as theory, technique, and playing chordal notes etc. goes.
Yep the Bass DVD looks a little dated, but the music reading DVD is even older....it doesn't matter a bit. I do wish the stories were edited out or moved to a different chapter, because when you replay trying to get an idea down, you have to listen to the stories over and over.
I try to look at it as seeming more personal, but that can get old too. I feel about the same way with Jaco's Modern Electric Bass...too much talking! Others love it. But CK gives you alot more for the $ IMHO.I guess it just me, I like the Billy Mays approach to things, you know...BAMMM HERE IT iS, BAMM HERE's MORE, BUT WAIT THAT'S NOT ALL....BAMM! YOU GET THIS TOO
RIP BILLY MAYS!
Yeah, I wasn't gainsaying your experience, just noting that my package was in perfect order as a contrast to your post. Everything was double wrapped, rubber banded, in logical order. All the promo stuff was on top of the included sheet music. I am really liking her stuff so far. Not sure if I am going to try the 1-2-4 thing though. I learned the one finger per fret method for guitar, years ago and so far it has worked for me on bass for the past several years. But, I am always open to new stuff. I got the music reading dvd and haven't had a chance to look at it yet.
Sounds like she may have cracked the whip on whoever packages her stuff!
To save myself some typing this sums up how I feel about the 124 business.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXkxu_7Tn48&feature=channel
To save myself some typing this sums up how I feel about the 124 business.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXkxu_7Tn48&feature=channel
That's an odd thing for her to say.
How can playing a different bass hurt your career?She's too old for PMS. Maybe she's going senile?
On another note...your story about CK and Flea on the Pbass reminded me of how on KISS's Creatures of the Night album, Jimmy Hayslip was called in in the middle of the night to do the bass for at least 5 songs (he's not sure, may be more)...So Jazz great Jimmy Hayslip is sitting there with Gene Simmons telling him how to play the bass, and of course being a pro, Jimmy did his job and played what Gene wanted him to, how Gene wanted him to. I don't see how anyone could consider that as lacking character. It's being a pro, IMO. I think JH is doing OK as far as being a musician goesSo yeah, CK's thinking is very wrong on that subject.
As for why didn't Gene play it himself...2 reasons:
1. He was depressed because he just broke up with Diana Ross & didn't feel like it.
2. He's Gene Simmons and can afford to pay Jimmy Hayslip to play it how he wants it played, when he wants it played.
Cool story! Was Jimmy listed on the album credits?
I'd like to see Gene Simmons try to sit in with the Yellowjackets.
