Carol Kaye tidbit

[LilRay]

...until you ask her something that makes her mad, no matter how innocent it is. Then she will be brutal.

Wouldn't she have the right to be?(Brutal).

Rather you believe certain recollections or not. She still has done more than most others will.

If I were able to speak to her, I'd try and be as respectful as possible. If she got crappy. Let it be

God Bless, Ray

 

[chuck1073]

Agreed. I believe CK just turned 75 this year. Patience for some questions runs short after that many years....of similar questions.

 

[JimmyM]

People have the right to be whatever they want as long as they don't infringe on anyone else's rights or break the law. So Carol absolutely has the right to be brutal on her web board. And I have the right not to subject myself to it, and I have the right to talk about how brutal she can be on other boards. I took it for a little while, then I realized that this is a seriously angry person and not always the sweet old grandmotherly type she seems to be at first, so I bailed. My right not to associate with that vibe just as much as it's her right to put out that vibe.

 

[hentor]

Yes, for most of these pro players the instrument was just a tool. It either did the job or it didn't.

Yay! Finally someone else feels the same way I do!

If it didn't sound or play right you traded it in and got one that was made a bit better. We were much too busy playing music and having fun at it to really pay much attention to our instruments other than to keep them in working order.

If it works for you...use it, if not move along and find one that does.

 

[THand]

Agreed. I believe CK just turned 75 this year. Patience for some questions runs short after that many years....of similar questions.

She's been very nice to me....but, I tread softly and realize I need her a heck of a lot more than she needs me.

She reminds me a lot of my grandmother(RIP) and my 2nd piano teacher (when I was about 12 yrs old). Sometimes you just have to chuckle at what a character she is, learn what you can from them,and be grateful for the experience.

I wish I had emails from Jaco and Jamerson giving me personal in sites and pointers to make ME better(how cool would that be??)! For most of us, the playing field will never be level when talking with her, because she knows what she knows, and doesn't need to know what I know....but that's ok, she's a true living legend. I can only hope I can still play when I'm her age, much less contribute anything worthwhile.

 

[LilRay]

People have the right to be whatever they want as long as they don't infringe on anyone else's rights or break the law. So Carol absolutely has the right to be brutal on her web board. And I have the right not to subject myself to it, and I have the right to talk about how brutal she can be on other boards. I took it for a little while, then I realized that this is a seriously angry person and not always the sweet old grandmotherly type she seems to be at first, so I bailed. My right not to associate with that vibe just as much as it's her right to put out that vibe.

Jimmy, I meant a little brutal now and then. I disagree on someone having a disgruntled attitude over everything too. I was just trying to be respectful of her accomplishments.
No degree of success measures a poor attitude to those who put you where you are. That's just counterproductive IMO.

Where is her board? I'd like to go and read some of it just for kicks.

God Bless, Ray

 

[THand]

People have the right to be whatever they want as long as they don't infringe on anyone else's rights or break the law. So Carol absolutely has the right to be brutal on her web board. And I have the right not to subject myself to it, and I have the right to talk about how brutal she can be on other boards. I took it for a little while, then I realized that this is a seriously angry person and not always the sweet old grandmotherly type she seems to be at first, so I bailed. My right not to associate with that vibe just as much as it's her right to put out that vibe.

Wow. Was this butting heads over bass ideas' or something else? I know it's none of my business, but it sounds like she got personal and abusive with you.
If so, yeah, nobody should have to take that from anybody.

 

[JimmyM]

Yes, she did get personal and abusive. I asked a question about studio bassists being asked to play basses other than their own. I mentioned the story about Flea and the Mars Volta where they asked him to play a Precision (and he did). I said I'd play any bass the producer wanted me to play if it paid and wanted to know if she felt that way. She got extremely mad and offended that I would dare ask that question, then told me the reason I haven't gone as far as I would have liked in the business is because I have no character, totally ignoring the fact that Flea, one of the most influential players of the last 20 years (like him or not, he's extremely influential), did exactly that. By the time I hit enter on my reply, the thread was deleted. 75 years old and way more influential than I am or not, I'm not going to take that crap from anyone at any time. She may have done more than me career-wise, but I certainly didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. So I sent her a nasty email and told her to take me off her board, and I haven't heard from her or been back since. Bought about $100 worth of instructional materials from her 2 weeks before, too! Nice!

I used to feel that I should just shut up and take what she gives and be glad of it, but after that, she can bite me. She is definitely best worshipped from afar, way afar.

Her board is carolkaye.com if anyone wants to witness her brutality.

 

[knarleybass]

My Dad was a session musician, and worked with Carol quite a lot. I can tell you that when my dad came home from doing a triple he was exhausted physically and mentally. The last thing on his mind was working on his horn. Though he played the same instrument throughout his 50 year career.

 

[LilRay]

Yes, she did get personal and abusive. I asked a question about studio bassists being asked to play basses other than their own. I mentioned the story about Flea and the Mars Volta where they asked him to play a Precision (and he did). I said I'd play any bass the producer wanted me to play if it paid and wanted to know if she felt that way. She got extremely mad and offended that I would dare ask that question, then told me the reason I haven't gone as far as I would have liked in the business is because I have no character, totally ignoring the fact that Flea, one of the most influential players of the last 20 years (like him or not, he's extremely influential), did exactly that. By the time I hit enter on my reply, the thread was deleted. 75 years old and way more influential than I am or not, I'm not going to take that crap from anyone at any time. She may have done more than me career-wise, but I certainly didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. So I sent her a nasty email and told her to take me off her board, and I haven't heard from her or been back since. Bought about $100 worth of instructional materials from her 2 weeks before, too! Nice!

I used to feel that I should just shut up and take what she gives and be glad of it, but after that, she can bite me. She is definitely best worshipped from afar, way afar.

Her board is carolkaye.com if anyone wants to witness her brutality.

Personal attacks are ridiculous on any forum. Reguardless of who you are. I'll check her board out but It sounds like she's one of those who says nobody plays it like I did/do
as if those since have absolutely no talent or insight.

Gone for laughs

God Bless, Ray

 

[JimmyM]

Personal attacks are ridiculous on any forum. Reguardless of who you are. I'll check her board out but It sounds like she's one of those who says nobody plays it like I did/do
as if those since have absolutely no talent or insight.

I thought you said you were never on her forum! Believe me, that's a very hot topic on her forum. She doesn't say it quite like that, but she says it. A lot.

 

[THand]

Yes, she did get personal and abusive. I asked a question about studio bassists being asked to play basses other than their own. I mentioned the story about Flea and the Mars Volta where they asked him to play a Precision (and he did). I said I'd play any bass the producer wanted me to play if it paid and wanted to know if she felt that way. She got extremely mad and offended that I would dare ask that question, then told me the reason I haven't gone as far as I would have liked in the business is because I have no character, totally ignoring the fact that Flea, one of the most influential players of the last 20 years (like him or not, he's extremely influential), did exactly that. By the time I hit enter on my reply, the thread was deleted. 75 years old and way more influential than I am or not, I'm not going to take that crap from anyone at any time. She may have done more than me career-wise, but I certainly didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. So I sent her a nasty email and told her to take me off her board, and I haven't heard from her or been back since. Bought about $100 worth of instructional materials from her 2 weeks before, too! Nice!

I used to feel that I should just shut up and take what she gives and be glad of it, but after that, she can bite me. She is definitely best worshipped from afar, way afar.

Her board is carolkaye.com if anyone wants to witness her brutality.

Dude, saying you had no character because you would do the job you were getting paid to do is obnoxious. I hate she did that. And of course, she's wrong.

I've emailed back and forth few times and she was nice, but I read through the forum sometimes and it's a little strange in there at times.

FWIW, I bought 2 of her DVD's and 2 or 3 books/CDs...and got an equal amount of disorganized photocopied PR stuff with it. It was hard to make out where one thing ends and the other begins because there is SO MUCH PR intertwined with the instructional stuff. She knows her stuff for sure, but I wish they would hire an editor to filter out all of the stories in the middle of a lesson.

Or better yet, just give Ed Friedland your educational dollar.


On the other hand, I really like her picks. I don't think they are the only pick in the world, like she does, but I do like them and as a result started using much thicker picks in general. I have been having trouble with my right hand lately( I think a combo of some carpel T, and a recurring ganglion cist) and it seems like using a pick instead of my fingers is helping. I also bought an Ibanez SRX 590(for less than $300)that I am liking more than I'd care to admit I'm thinking about putting some Chromes on it this weekend.

Thanks for the CK warning...& sorry she did that...

 

[LilRay]

I thought you said you were never on her forum! Believe me, that's a very hot topic on her forum. She doesn't say it quite like that, but she says it. A lot.

Trust Me I've never been!

And at this point I'll never Go!

I did stop by to read some of it just for fun a minute ago. But I'm not going to waste my time and "Join" just to read something once. And I'm definately not willing to support someone with that kind of an attitude PERIOD. Not even a a statistic of "Members" on her forum. The fact that you have to join to read the forum speaks volumes to me. That's just ridiculous. Join up to hear some cantankerous old broad toot her own horn. NOT FOR ME!

If she were about edjucation, you'd be allowed to read the forum without joining.

God Bless, Ray

 

[JimmyM]

I still respect her as a person, just as I respect any human who obeys the laws of the land and doesn't hurt anyone else. But she is a very angry person, and I just choose not to associate myself with her vibe.

Her pick technique, however, saved my right hand from bad news, so as much as I'd like to dislike her or not respect her, I can't. She spent a lot of time explaining it to me (and occasionally browbeating me over it), but it absolutely worked.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Well she did work her ass off in those days...5-6 sessions a day, 18 hour days...seems unbelievable to people not from that era, but there was actually a time you could make a living from sessions only, but you had to work your ass off. I could easily see it. That's why I don't have a hard time believing it.

in the early days of rock bands that played their own instruments,studio pros were often brought in to play on the recordings,ala simon and garfunkel's sounds of silence,or even zappa's early stuff so there was probably much greater demand for their services......as well the brill building style hit machinery has largely been replaced by the self contained band format of today

 

[THand]

Her pick technique, however, saved my right hand from bad news, so as much as I'd like to dislike her or not respect her, I can't. She spent a lot of time explaining it to me (and occasionally browbeating me over it), but it absolutely worked.

Jimmy, are you using pick technique only? I think I'm going to have to, for the health of my hand.

 

[JimmyM]

Jimmy, are you using pick technique only? I think I'm going to have to, for the health of my hand.

Nope, I use fingers mostly, but I'll probably do 20% of most gigs with a pick.

 

[THand]

I know I need to have something medically done with my hand, but I simply can't afford surgery right now.

I don't mind playing with a pick, except in the back of my mind I think I will lose credibility if I can't do both. Stupid when it comes to health, I know.

On another note...your story about CK and Flea on the Pbass reminded me of how on KISS's Creatures of the Night album, Jimmy Hayslip was called in in the middle of the night to do the bass for at least 5 songs (he's not sure, may be more)...So Jazz great Jimmy Hayslip is sitting there with Gene Simmons telling him how to play the bass, and of course being a pro, Jimmy did his job and played what Gene wanted him to, how Gene wanted him to. I don't see how anyone could consider that as lacking character. It's being a pro, IMO. I think JH is doing OK as far as being a musician goes So yeah, CK's thinking is very wrong on that subject.

As for why didn't Gene play it himself...2 reasons:
1. He was depressed because he just broke up with Diana Ross & didn't feel like it.
2. He's Gene Simmons and can afford to pay Jimmy Hayslip to play it how he wants it played, when he wants it played.

 

[JimmyM]

Gene being depressed over a broad? Yeah, right! That probably lasted for all of a day

I've never had a credibility problem with picks. I've had a couple bass players goof on me, but then I just remind them that they're watching me, not the other way around. If anyone gives you stick about it, just ask them if they'd rather you lose all use of your hand or play with a pick. I'll give you another tip that helps if you use a pick...use light strings...whatever you use now, bump them down .005. If you're bothered by the low tension, raise the action a little. They'll definitely make using Carol's pick method easier and give you a little more range for picking area instead of dead on the neck.

 

[THand]

It sounds out of character, but yeah, that's why the producer (I think it was Micheal James Jackson, IIRC) called JH.....Gene was too depressed over Diana Ross.

Nothings sadder than a demon with the blues.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Using lighter gauge strings makes alot of sense.