Carol Kaye's string changing method !

[BazzTard]

Not much. But it has a lot to do with the rabble making fun of legitimate icons who are in a realm beyond as far as talent, experience, and expertise goes.I know the folks getting the thread started were just having a bit of fun. You could say I was having some similar fun back.

who are you calling rabble? Wasn't making fun, just sharing one of HER anecdotes that SHE chose to publish! lol

What I wrote is quoting her forward in the book, so I doubt it isn't true. I wasn't trying to denigrate her at all. I just passed on a fun little known fact about one of the greatest bassists ever. I learnt from her first bass method book so I have a lot of repect for her. Sheesh she played on EVERY Phil Spector hit from 1960-69 ! So we can't share some fun without getting argumentative,calling people rabble?

 

[Iridescentone]

You missed the point. I am not an innovator in electrical work. I am just a schmuck with enough skills to follow the print and bring it to life. Kaye is just a person with enough skills to play a bass line given a "blue print". She wasn't an innovator in my view. Nothing she did was outside the box of what anyone else who was a pro bass player was doing at the time. She didn't "take bass to the next level" like Stanley, Jaco or any of those guys. But, then again, I'm a bigger fan of her work than theirs. I just like a good meat and potatoes bass line. That's what she played. But she didn't turn the bass world on its collective ear. Guys in the 70s weren't clamoring to get her autograph or anything. She just played the bass like a bass player (or like guitar player plays the bass ). Again, I understand the history. She's part of it. But her playing, in and of itself, was nothing ground breaking. It was just good solid melodic bass lines.

I get your point. I just disagree with it. Timing is everything. She, Joe Osborn, Jamerson, and a few others were uniquely positioned in their time zone to define the new role of bass in pop music. They were pioneers who blazed the trail of transition, from acoustic bass to electric bass. In that sense they did indeed "take bass to the next level". There have been many famous bass innovators since, but most weren't there at the beginning. And that counts for something.

As far as guys in the 70's clamoring to get autographs of these session players.....seems irrelevant to me because for decades afterwards, the general public (including most musos) had no idea who they were, anyway. I mean honestly, at the time, who knew who the session bass players were?

 

[Space Pickle]

HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A RABBLE

 

[lifeoffroadbass]

Certainly- but less about bass maintenance than the most junior player on this board. (Not to mention some of the questionable playing credits she has claimed.) The weird part is coming up as poor as she did, you would think she would be a little more miserly in terms of things like that.

How do you know she knows nothing about bass maintenance? I believe the OP stated that she did it for convenience.

 

[king_biscuit]

No she absolutely didn't. Niether do MST studio musicians of those days. And way would you want to keep a fender in those days if you were a studio artist. She makes mention in many of her interviews how inconsistent and janky fenders were.

Carol couldn't change strings so I doubt she knew how to properly setup a bass. Like many players, she probably thought the ones with good action were keepers and the others "janky".

 

[two fingers]

I get your point. I just disagree with it. Timing is everything. She, Joe Osborn, Jamerson, and a few others were uniquely positioned in their time zone to define the new role of bass in pop music. They were pioneers who blazed the trail of transition, from acoustic bass to electric bass. In that sense they did indeed "take bass to the next level". There have been many famous bass innovators since, but most weren't there at the beginning. And that counts for something.

As far as guys in the 70's clamoring to get autographs of these session players.....seems irrelevant to me because for decades afterwards, the general public (including most musos) had no idea who they were, anyway. I mean honestly, at the time, who knew who the session bass players were?

Fair enough. All good points. I simply think that any halfway decent bass player who had been there at the time, and willing to pick up a Fender bass, could have made the same mark on music. Her technique wasn't amazing. It was good enough. We analyse it to death now because those recordings made history, not because of how awesome it was to begin with. Same goes for Jamerson. I love his work. It taught me how to play bass. But lots of guys could have sat in that chair, at that time, with that band and cranked out some tasty bass lines. We don't revere him because of his legendary choice of notes and his ground-breaking technique. We revere him because he laid down the tracks to tons of smash hits. And, again, I got my start copping his stuff. I learned more from him than any bass teacher I ever had.

 

[king_biscuit]

How do you know she knows nothing about bass maintenance? I believe the OP stated that she did it for convenience.

Think about it, it had to have been quicker to change strings (10 minutes tops) than go in a music store and negotiate a deal on a trade in.

 

[petrus61]

Imagine all one wants... but CK doesn't play the Stick.

Fender Products are still somewhat disposable - and I even have a few.

As soon as you're ready to dispose of them, let me know. The point remains, there aren't any Stick players dumping their instrument when the X# string suddenly dies on them. Of course, the seven or eight people that play them could probably set up an exchange network.

 

[mmbongo]

Some people succeed in spite of themselves...

 

[BazzTard]

There was a similar anecdote about John Entwistle, he's said in the past that (and bear with me here as I don't recall the exact quote) he went through a number of Danelectro basses because he kept breaking the strings and they didn't have replacements, so he would have to buy a new bass each time. .

this is fact,you couldn't buy replacement strings for them. Only when he used up ALL the shops Dans did he grab a P.

 

[bassdrop]

Fair enough. All good points. I simply think that any halfway decent bass player who had been there at the time, and willing to pick up a Fender bass, could have made the same mark on music. Her technique wasn't amazing. It was good enough. We analyse it to death now because those recordings made history, not because of how awesome it was to begin with. Same goes for Jamerson. I love his work. It taught me how to play bass. But lots of guys could have sat in that chair, at that time, with that band and cranked out some tasty bass lines. We don't revere him because of his legendary choice of notes and his ground-breaking technique. We revere him because he laid down the tracks to tons of smash hits. And, again, I got my start copping his stuff. I learned more from him than any bass teacher I ever had.

Huh. You actually believe that you could lay down jamerson's lines? That's rich

 

[warrplayer]

Carol couldn't change strings so I doubt she knew how to properly setup a bass. Like many players, she probably thought the ones with good action were keepers and the others "janky".

In the same quote she that she mentions trading in basses, she says she would often have to shim the neck in them to get the action right. It was a different world back then. Fender basses were a couple hundred bucks, held their resale like crazy, and strings were very, very expensive. Keep in mind there were an astronomically smaller number of players, so strings were not mass manufactured on the scale they are today. I can absolutely see trading in one p-bass for another and only loosing twice the cost of the strings in exchange for the convience and for having a new, under warrenty bass.

 

[king_biscuit]

In the same quote she that she mentions trading in basses, she says she would often have to shim the neck in them to get the action right. It was a different world back then. Fender basses were a couple hundred bucks, held their resale like crazy, and strings were very, very expensive. Keep in mind there were an astronomically smaller number of players, so strings were not mass manufactured on the scale they are today. I can absolutely see trading in one p-bass for another and only loosing twice the cost of the strings in exchange for the convience and for having a new, under warrenty bass.

Except you are making some of that up. Didn't Carol say she did it because she didn't have time to change strings?

 

[bolophonic]

Sure, she was good, but not amazing. Her lines were fine. I like them. But most players could have sat in that chair and produced something equally as good.

No.

 

[crucislancer]

this is fact,you couldn't buy replacement strings for them. Only when he used up ALL the shops Dans did he grab a P.

Yup, here is the quote from an interview with Chris Jisi, in 1989 (reprinted in "Bass Heroes")

How did the "My Generation" solo come about?
Originally, we wanted to feature the sound of a Danelectro bass, which had thin strings. We did three takes, all of which were faster, more trebly, and more complex than the final one, and I kept breaking the strings. You Couldn't get replacements, so I had to keep buying Danelectros. When the store finally ran out of them, I bought a Fender Jazz Bass, put on LaBella strings, and used it to cut the recorded version.

 

[warrplayer]

Except you are making some of that up. Didn't Carol say she did it because she didn't have time to change strings?

sorry? What is it you think I am making up? She did it to save time, and I am inferring that instead of being a dingbat that it was actually quite economically feasable for her to do so. I am also inferring that most people handing out flak are picturing some guitar center type trade in values, etc. Please feel free to correct any misconceptions I may be laboring under. ???

 

[Red Four]

who are you calling rabble? Wasn't making fun, just sharing one of HER anecdotes that SHE chose to publish! lol

I was calling you rabble. And me rabble! We're all rabble, let's face it. As I said in another comment, "I know the folks getting the thread started were just having a bit of fun. You could say I was having some similar fun back." Sorry if I sounded too harsh. You're not one of the oddballs saying she's just another player, nothing special.

 

[Red Four]

Certainly- but less about bass maintenance than the most junior player on this board.

Than again, you're talking about an anecdote from about 50 years ago. She's used a much smaller number of basses in recent decades, even down to just one for some time now it seems, and one that's not in production any longer. I'm guessing she's changed a few strings since the 1960s.

 

[GretschWretch]

Lots to respond to here:

1) Taking bass to the next level: until there is a foundation, there is no "next level." If Kaye, Osborn, and Jamerson are not acceptable as the seminal stylemakers of electric bass, who ya gonna call? Bill Black? Jerry Lee Lewis' bassplayer? Little Richard's?

2) Kaye's being unable or unwilling to be a "bass tech" and not changing her own strings is no knock on her. Isn't McCartney on record as saying his original Hofner went out of tune on the E string above the third fret? He did not know about compensating the bridge. In decades past, how many pawn shop wall-hangers had horribly warped necks because we the teen owners did not know about truss rod adjustment? Almost NONE of the players had tech skills back then, and there was NO shortage of full service music stores. Kaye had a system which worked for her; it's not for us to pass judgement.

3) I would like to see that ten-minute string change. I doubt it can be done. Not to the tune-up and play level at any rate. Certainly not to studio spec.

 

[king_biscuit]

sorry? What is it you think I am making up? She did it to save time, and I am inferring that instead of being a dingbat that it was actually quite economically feasable for her to do so. I am also inferring that most people handing out flak are picturing some guitar center type trade in values, etc. Please feel free to correct any misconceptions I may be laboring under. ???

It is a fact that Carol said she did it to save time. Each of us can take turns inferring all day from that fact, and my inference is that Carol is kind of crazy and it didn't happen. You have added enough "facts" to your point to draw your conclusion. Is it possible both right?