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Carvin or Warwick - your opinion please.

Carvin JB5 or Warwick Rockbass Corvette $$ 5

  • Carvin JB5

    Votes: 87 82.9%

  • Warwick Rockbass Corvette $$ 5

    Votes: 18 17.1%
  • Total voters
    105
  • Poll closed .
#81
SanDiegoHarry said:
Just took a look at the Carvin/Kiesel web site

Woof - They have raised their prices. Yikes! Not such a killer deal as they used to be. Ah well. Not important - buy used. Here on TB!
Click to expand...

Yikes! No kidding! I guess they only want to make those fancy wood basses for the most part. As far as the in-stock section, I guess the days of amazing bang-for-the-buck are being phased out in favor of overpriced show pieces... I wonder if they make those to be eye candy and marketing material while most people just order straight forward, simpler basses.

Sorry but I really get a belly laugh when I see a $1000 JB5 priced at close to $3000 because of cosmetics and having a guy's name on it. If I had $3K to drop on a single bass, 'Kiesel' basses wouldn't even be a remote consideration...But for $1000 or less, they are tough to beat!
 
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#82
G On Bass said:
Yikes! No kidding! I guess they only want to make those fancy wood basses for the most part. As far as the in-stock section, I guess the days of amazing bang-for-the-buck are being phased out in favor of overpriced show pieces... I wonder if they make those to be eye candy and marketing material while most people just order straight forward, simpler basses.

Sorry but I really get a belly laugh when I see a $1000 JB5 priced at close to $3000 because of cosmetics and having a guy's name on it. If I had $3K to drop on a single bass, 'Kiesel' basses wouldn't even be a remote consideration...But for $1000 or less, they are tough to beat!
Click to expand...

Agreed. HOWEVER, there is a concept in marketing involving "Brand valuation' - it's a bit if circular logic that says that since you charge $5000 for a thing means that it's *worth* $5000. If Porsche started selling cars for $25K, then it would devalue their entire brand, if you follow. So maybe Carvin is trying to enter the whole Sadowsky / Fodera world. IF SO, I hope that they doing a few things differently. My only gripe with Carvin's is that their QA is, on occasion, suspect and they sometimes use less than great materials (Soft wood in particular). So maybe they've stepped up the QA and are spending more $$ on materials. If that's the case, they should advertise that to help justify the new pricing structure.

But to the OP - buy a used Carvin. They are GREAT values used. New? not so much, unless you want something REALLY custom. It would never occur to me to buy a new black carvin with a rosewood fingerboard, if you follow.
 
#83
SanDiegoHarry said:
So maybe Carvin is trying to enter the whole Sadowsky / Fodera world. IF SO, I hope that they doing a few things differently. My only gripe with Carvin's is that their QA is, on occasion, suspect and they sometimes use less than great materials (Soft wood in particular). So maybe they've stepped up the QA and are spending more $$ on materials. If that's the case, they should advertise that to help justify the new pricing structure.
Click to expand...

Also agreed. But Fodera, Sadowsky, Wyn and others are in such a different league. They allow different, user-selectable, name-brand electronics and their manufacturing and attention to detail is waaaaaaay beyond Carvin's....I've always felt that the price hikes are more about wood and colors, not about manufacturing detail, electronics and other tangible improvements that directly relate to how things sound and feel. That $3K 'Kiesel' JB5 is gonna sound pretty much exactly like a basic model....

SanDiegoHarry said:
But to the OP - buy a used Carvin. They are GREAT values used. New? not so much, unless you want something REALLY custom. It would never occur to me to buy a new black carvin with a rosewood fingerboard, if you follow.
Click to expand...

1000% agreed!
 
#84
G On Bass said:
Also agreed. But Fodera, Sadowsky, Wyn and others are in such a different league. They allow different, user-selectable, name-brand electronics and their manufacturing and attention to detail is waaaaaaay beyond Carvin's....I've always felt that the price hikes are more about wood and colors, not about manufacturing detail, electronics and other tangible improvements that directly relate to how things sound and feel. That $3K 'Kiesel' JB5 is gonna sound pretty much exactly like a basic model....



1000% agreed!
Click to expand...

But Carvin has been offering the exact same stuff it's offering now for what - about 30% less? So what is the "value add" here? It isn't just inflation!

I should swing by the factory store and check a few out. It's all of 5 miles from my casa.
 
#85
That $3000 JB5 has been in-stock for at least 6-9 months by now...originally did not have the Purple Heart PG.

127583b.jpg


However, it does look absolutely fabulous!!! If I had the money, I'd buy that sucker!!! Even the back of the headstock has the flame maple - Gorgeous!!! (But if I were to buy something like that, I'd go the extra step and add pearl blocks rather than plain 'ol dot inlays...I mean, why stop there?)

But the argument about its added $1500 over a base model but sounding exactly like a base model...
Same thing with any other bass out there...would a German Pro-Series Warwick that costs $2500 sound the same as a CS model which costs $5000? Absolutely, but the CS model sure does look nicer, don't it...?
 
#86
eastcoasteddie said:
That $3000 JB5 has been in-stock for at least 6-9 months by now...originally did not have the Purple Heart PG.
Click to expand...

The high price and not-selling of that bass also points to one of the "value" points of Carvin. Customizability. There are probably alot of folks who have paid $3000 for a Carvin instrument. However, they picked THEIR exact options. When you buy a fancy new Carvin you're paying for the uniqueness. That Carvin is going to sit there for a while unless someone happens across it for whom that selection of options is their ideal combination. This same phenomenon is part of why Carvin's are so cheap used.

All that said, I don't think that $3k is a bad price for such an instrument. In general it seems that a totally tricked out Carvin seems to tickle the base price of the boutique brands.
 
#89
HubbardsFate said:
Cool, you just admitted what I figured was at the crux of your, er, "argument" from the beginning. Thanks for clarifying! :D:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Do you know the Harvard Business School formula for value?

Its VALUE = UTILITY × ESTEEM / PRICE.

If you analyze this, the most important facet of the formula is ESTEEM.

In my estimation, Carvin doesn't have the panache to compete with a number of other brands and make it an aspirational purchase.

If you like Carvin, that's fine. If you think they make good instruments, that's okay with me too. But Carvin will never sell me an instrument because I choose to buy other brands. That's my choice.
 
#90
MobileHolmes said:
Maybe you should see a
Urologist about that
Click to expand...

I actually think that this headstock design is a fantastic one. Maybe even one of the best out there right now. I'm relieved they got away from some of their other designs.

There are brands out there that I would've purchased, but the headstock design was SO incredibly dopey looking on those units that I just couldn't do it. Incredibly dopey.

This Carvin/Kiesel one is really great, I think. This Carvin/Kiesel design makes a lot of sense to me in terms of what they're trying to do, marketing-wise (imho). Very nicely thought out and executed. I like it.

LL
 
#91
Gizmot said:
Do you know the Harvard Business School formula for value?

Its VALUE = UTILITY × ESTEEM / PRICE.

If you analyze this, the most important facet of the formula is ESTEEM.

In my estimation, Carvin doesn't have the panache to compete with a number of other brands and make it an aspirational purchase.

If you like Carvin, that's fine. If you think they make good instruments, that's okay with me too. But Carvin will never sell me an instrument because I choose to buy other brands. That's my choice.
Click to expand...
Back on topic... would you choose a Warwick Rockbass over a Carvin JB5?
 
#94
Carvin by a mile!
Gizmot said:
I've written here before that I don't consider Carvin to be professional equipment - and I never will.

Look at the number of Carvin instruments that are for sale on TB, CL, EBay and other sites. Its my observation that their instruments don't deliver much long term satisfaction. All my friends that have bought Carvin turned right around and sold them fairly quickly.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but, you can replace the word "Carvin" in that post with literally any other instrument brand name and it will be equally (in)valid.
 
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#97
Gizmot said:
Do you know the Harvard Business School formula for value?

Its VALUE = UTILITY × ESTEEM / PRICE.

If you analyze this, the most important facet of the formula is ESTEEM.

In my estimation, Carvin doesn't have the panache to compete with a number of other brands and make it an aspirational purchase.

If you like Carvin, that's fine. If you think they make good instruments, that's okay with me too. But Carvin will never sell me an instrument because I choose to buy other brands. That's my choice.
Click to expand...

I still think you owe it to yourself to try one. Aren't you at least curious? Nothing like actual hands on experience. Doesn't mean you have to buy it. Who knows, you might be surprised. Why didn't you play your friends' Carvins?
 
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#98
Gizmot said:
Do you know the Harvard Business School formula for value?

Its VALUE = UTILITY × ESTEEM / PRICE.

If you analyze this, the most important facet of the formula is ESTEEM.

In my estimation, Carvin doesn't have the panache to compete with a number of other brands and make it an aspirational purchase.

If you like Carvin, that's fine. If you think they make good instruments, that's okay with me too. But Carvin will never sell me an instrument because I choose to buy other brands. That's my choice.
Click to expand...
Dude,

I think you should maybe take a break from buying Warwicks, G & Ls, and Rics, and maybe put some money towards a reading comprehension class. Nowhere in any of my previous posts did I state or imply that you (A) do not have the right to choose which basses to buy and/or (B) that you have to, or should, buy a Carvin. I think we all get it - Carvin is beneath you. I mean, you've outright admitted that you're a gear snob, and this latest post of yours confirmed it: "Carvin doesn't have the panache to compete with a number of other brands and make it an aspirational purchase."

The problem I have is with your original post especially - in which you put forth the view that Carvin doesn't make professional gear - is that Carvin gear has, in fact, been used by many professionals over several decades. And then you go on to try and give the impression that the used market - eBay, Craigslist, the TB classifieds, et al - is utterly saturated with people trying to unload their (presumably inferior and unwanted, and DEFINITELY non-professional quality) Carvins/Kiesels. I mean, I find it pretty funny how you haven't responded to the counterpoint I made to that, which is that the TB classifieds alone have several basses of a more "esteemed" name (since esteem is so all-important to your royal highness) for sale - including Warwicks, G & Ls, Rics, and even boutique stuff like Fodera and Dingwall. You seem to be using used Carvins/Kiesels on the market as a metric of their "esteem"/desirability/value/whatever...so shouldn't you apply the same criteria to other makes as well?

By the way, no, I didn't know the Harvard Business School's formula for value, and frankly I'm glad, because I might have been silly enough to base all of my purchases (bass and otherwise) upon it if I had, as apparently is the case with you. Just out of curiosity, what do you drive? If it's anything less than a Lamborghini or Maserati, man, I don't even want to talk to you anymore...:roflmao:;)
 
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#99
I really appreciate all the feedback and found some of the dialogue to be quite interesting. I guess that is to say I find the topics that catch fire to be of some interest. I posted a NBD photo set the other day and meh. Same goes for others. This brand vs that brand and fazoom!! ;)

My main concern after a significant amount of heartburn with non-American made basses from Ibanez was to buy a quality made instrument. What I really want is this; an American made fretless 5-string Fender bass. That combo is custom shop only and just a skoash outside of my sanity numbers. There are lots of options when leaving out one of the criteria and that's what I have chosen. The Chinese Warwick lost because of what I was hearing about quality and the German one wouldn't be American made either. I would rather spend a bit more and support an American company. I am sure that is controversial to some and I mean no disrespect to those that live somewhere else, but it's important to me.

I could have bought used, but fretless makes that a smaller pool of instruments. I could have bought a 4 string, but really wanted 5. I could have bought a fretted instrument, but that would have just been silly. I looked at MTD, Warwick, Sire, G&L, everything at the stores in Chicago and Atlanta, AMS, Sweetwater, GC, and other places that just randomly popped up using Google-Fu. In the end, I chose a different model than the JB5. I bought the B25. I watched the youtube video by Brian Bromberg and the things he said made a lot of sense to me. Time will tell...

Here are the specs.
B25 BROMBERG 5S BASS
QDM4 QUILT DEEP MOSS GREEN
5MM 5 PIECE ALL MAPLE NECK
NS NECK NOT SHOWN ON TOP OF B
QPH4 QUILTED HEADSTOCK ANNIVERS
FI FRETLESS FINGERBOARD W/WHT
KRH INSTALL RADIUM HUMBUCKERS
BC BLACK CHROME PLATED HARDWA
UCS USE CUSTOMER'S STRINGS
AK METAL KNOBS WITH ABALONE I

Again, I really appreciated all the replies and opinions. I am excited about this build and will certainly post some photos once it arrives.
 
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#100
Eilif said:
The high price and not-selling of that bass also points to one of the "value" points of Carvin. Customizability. There are probably alot of folks who have paid $3000 for a Carvin instrument. However, they picked THEIR exact options. When you buy a fancy new Carvin you're paying for the uniqueness. That Carvin is going to sit there for a while unless someone happens across it for whom that selection of options is their ideal combination. This same phenomenon is part of why Carvin's are so cheap used.

All that said, I don't think that $3k is a bad price for such an instrument. In general it seems that a totally tricked out Carvin seems to tickle the base price of the boutique brands.
Click to expand...

I would doubt that is a very large group. It was pretty darn hard to get a Carvin over the $2000 mark without going "option 50" in 2012, when I ordered my LB76. I got all the bells and whistles and my tag was about $1800~ with shipping. I enjoy my LB76 but, in my opinion, it doesn't hang with $3000 basses. I looked at Carvin and Dingwall and the ABZ6 would have cost me about $3000~ versus the Carvin. I would not put Carvin's build quality anywhere near Dingwall's. Don't get me wrong my LB76 is a fine bass but it does not have the same level of detail put into the build. It is a factory assembly line bass built to my specs, it is not a boutique quality build.

I don't think it is a great idea for Carvin to knock up their prices but I am hardly an authority on the guitar manufacturing business. Time will tell if they made the right call and they do appear to be staying busy. Carvin actually changed their international shipping policy a few years ago so, in my opinion, they were already over-priced when bringing their gear into Canada. I stopped considering any Carvin gear at that time.
 

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