Carvin or Warwick - your opinion please.

[Double E]

The difference between Carvin and Kiesel is merely a choice on the order form… You can decide between a Carvin headstock label or a Kiesel headstock label.

 

[Toptube]

Carvin/Kiesel makes great high quality gear. I have owned several of their instruments and they were all of great quality, feel, and tone. The company is evolving and changing a litttle too much for me. With not enough consistency, every 10 years it's almost like a new company. With that being said they have not updated their mixers and mics with gear that is better than the latest Behringer products

Carvin audio is now a completely separate company, with no business connection, at all, to Kiesel guitars or Carvin guitars. I honestly have payed very little attention to Carvin audio, since the split. And the info I have heard is probably biased. But, the general sentiment is that the owner of Carvin audio did not want anything to do with instruments anymore. And sine their audio progress seem to be stagnating---maybe they have little interest in further developing the brand and their products. I dunno.

Kiesel guitars, on the other hand, seems to be adding new stuff every few weeks. I mean, Jeff live streams at least once per week (usually on Wednesday) and he talks about something new, almost every time.

While they are most definitely solid basses, IMHO, I wouldn't consider anything from Carvin/Kiesel a Lexus level bass. Regardless of how much bling is added. Lexus is about far more than cosmetics. I have a couple of Lexus level basses that were built one at a time with custom wound pickups in one case top notch 3rd party electronics in the other, roasted or ancient wood, chambering and all that stuff that cost less money than some of those 'Kiesel' editions. My B25 shares time with them as it is my fretless. I have had no issues with any of my Carvins and consider them great basses for what I paid new (~$1100). They're tough to beat at that price, not so tough at double it. IME...

Yeah, I'm not sure. I think some of it comes down to personal feel. Some of it may be pyschological. Maybe knowing that another brand has more hand done aspects. But, some of the things you decided to specifically mention, aren't necessarily unique or even unavailable from Kiesel.

No, you can't get custom pickup winds from Kiesel. But, they do make their own pickups. They are not outsourced, they don't buy someone else's design. and their pickups are good. Tone preferences can get pretty personal. I've tried a lot of single coils and for me personally, their 2nd generation readiused single coils are one of the best tones I've wielded, in a single coil. Their pickup build quality is comparable to many. I think the only two companies I have seen, who make visually immaculate pickups are EMG as the absolute #1 and Nordstrand in a not so distant #2. But I also haven't seen everybody.....but you should be able to see my point.

If you do need/want something very specific, as long as it will fit into one of their existing route patterns, you can send them whatever you want. Pre-amps, as well. and that will raise the price up closer to some of these other builders, who do custom pikcups. Now, that isn't part of their standard build options. But you can do it. And due to customer demand for some 3rd party option and also lack of options at all, for multi-scale----Kiesel has started offering some Duncan pickups, for guitars.

Jeff is soon to release the multi-scale Icon bass, which will bring about a similar situation, for the bass side. Kiesel guitars is now it's own separate company and it seems like they are constantly thinking about how to expand. I wouldn't be surprised if by Namm 2018, we seem them offering 3rd party pickups. Especially for multi-scale. But even before then, you could have any pickup maker of your choice, custom wind a pickup for you and have Kiesel install it.


They offer chambering on most models. I think virtually all of their bass models, actually have chambering as an option.
Jeff Kiesel has not been shy about his feelings on roasted wood. Whether or not I, you, or another luthier agree-----he currently does not feel it results in a better product. I respect that. They certainly have the capability. They have tried it. They have researched it. They feel their existing kiln methods are good and they augment that with support rods. Which they just upgraded to a 40% stronger product, from the same supplier. So, they aren't resting. They are always improving in ways which they feel are actual improvements.

As far as "ancient" wood or overall wood quality------My impression, after watching several videos of their factory and wood stocks and anecdotes about how they buy wood ----Kiesel's wood is quality stuff. Better than many. They only do 2 piece and 1 piece bodies. You won't get a 3 or 5 piece Jazz bass body from them. They've gotta be one of the more notable sources to get a Koa build. Koa isn't cheap or easy to get. etc.

Honestly, I played a Lull bass, for a solid 20 minutes. I think that many would agree, Mike Lull makes "perfect" basses. Indeed, that bass felt great, in my hands. It reminded me very much of my Carvin Icon 5. The feel was similar. As different as they are, visually, the feel of the neck and the feel to play, was similar.

As far as build quality, My Icon probably represents the mark which Kiesel would like to hit, every single time. Is it their very best example? I dunno. Maybe not? But certainly, I came away feeling even better about my Carvin, after playing that Lull. A $3,000 (used) bass, reminded me of my $1500 (new) bass.

The only thing which struck me as obviously better about that Lull, was how freaking light it was. Indeed, it was chambered and the wood was probably carefully selected to be especially lightweight. I am sure that a good deal of the cost of a Lull, goes toward ensuring very light woods (among other things.).

My Icon is a good weight. I am perfectly happy with it, as someone who cares about weight. Some more recent Kiesels have been heavier. Kiesel is not scrutinizing weight, as a standard feature. Whereas Lull and Sadowsky, are. However, you can pay Kiesel extra, to dig through their stock and ensure you get the light stuff. And this would bump you closer to the cost of some of these other builders. Heavy wood doesn't mean junk. It just means heavy.

Can you get all of that from some other smaller builder for a great price? It sounds like maybe you can! Its great that someone has worked out a business model to do that. I think that Kiesel is probably a little too big to match all of that for their current low price. But, they build faster than many, which is part of their model, and part of their appeal. They offer more options than most and most of the upcharges are comparatively lower. A lot goes into it. But I think those latter few points are the point, of how they have set themselves up.

 

[FNHScar17s]

warwick all the way hands down better in my opinion as far as sound and playability and general sexyness. but i will say carvin makes a fine ass instrument for a very very very good price and its custom which is a hell of a deal. I had to save for my custom shop warwick for a long long time. I do want another warwick but i do want a carvin fretless for the road. just saying.