Nope, not quite. That's a bolt on wooden neck on those. Great bodies, though; I might include some holes or slots in mine.
Edit: Or should that be exclude some holes or slots. . .
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Cast Aluminum Bass
- Thread starter Bob the bassist
- Start date
Nope, not quite. That's a bolt on wooden neck on those. Great bodies, though; I might include some holes or slots in mine.
Edit: Or should that be exclude some holes or slots. . .
Closer, but I'm hoping to cast (and machine) it 'frets and all' in one solid block, instead of having joints between the frets and fingerboard, fingerboard and neck, and/or the body and neck. The whole idea is to have the fewest possible joints/material transitions from one end of the string to the other; If I can eventually machine a solid bridge, then the strings will be supported on a single slab with no breaks to interfere with resonance and sustain.
Oh. That's a terrible idea. Aluminum isn't hard enough to use for frets. Even if it's anodized, my guess is they'll wear noticeably within months, if not weeks, of regular playing.
Asad
Thought of that already. Instead of regular frets like this:
NUT^_^_^_^_^...BRIDGE
I'm going to make ramps like this:
NUT/|/|/|/|/|...BRIDGE
so the string pressure won't just be on the 'point' but spread out some, and I also want to look into having the fingerboard electroplated with something really tough, if possible. From the get-go, I'll be looking for the hardest alloy I can find. I doubt I can just melt down a bunch of beer cans!
Thought of that already. Instead of regular frets like this:
NUT^_^_^_^_^...BRIDGE
I'm going to make ramps like this:
NUT/|/|/|/|/|...BRIDGE
so the string pressure won't just be on the 'point' but spread out some, and I also want to look into having the fingerboard electroplated with something really tough, if possible. From the get-go, I'll be looking for the hardest alloy I can find. I doubt I can just melt down a bunch of beer cans!
if you did your frets ramped that way they would be way better, but I'd still expect that to have a really short lifespan. I'd probably find a way to do a thin steel layer on top, or something like that.
I don't think plating would cut it.
Here's the Tokai Talbo bass, and an image of the unassembled body of the guitar:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
An interesting variation on the guitar:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed][Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
An interesting variation on the guitar:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
instead of casting you could make the body like a wooden bass but w/aluminum by milling an inner core and attaching 1/8" panels on the back and front - like a chambered bass. small countersunk screws could hold the top and back on which would look cool and you could mill your own bridge or bolt on a Hipshot etc. the neck could be bolt on as well. if you went w/the chambered idea it would be pretty light weight
If you are going to cast with frets and all make sure you know exactly how much it will shrink as it cools. Or maybe cast it full size and machine the "fret ramps" in?
Greg N
Greg N
Me, too. Pretty, though.
Yup, I'll be casting it oversize, then machining in the details. Once I know what alloy to try, I'll know the shrink percentage.
But, the whole point is to have as few parts and joints as possible. It's a neat idea, it's just not what I'm after. But thanks for coming out and playing the game. Johhny has some lovely consolation prizes for you backstage.
Ok, I'm speculating here, but couldn't it have more than one layer of plating? What if I anodize it first? Is there another method of binding a layer of dissimilar metal to it on a molecular level? (Is aluminum even platable?) I dunno. That's why I started this thread. So far, it's paid off in spades: Lots of good ideas and theories to check out, and some great bass samples to check out, as well. Thanks again, all!
Ah, I see. Actually the middle pic is the Veleno, and yup, it's all aluminum, but not a single casting. $14K. Eep. More motivation for me to DIY it.
A few technical points.
1. The saddles are the part of the bass requiring the most mobility. Casting them in place would IMO be foolish.
2. Trying to make the whole thing, including neck, from one piece? Look up the dimensional accuracy specs for aluminum castings first. You may find it's too wide a variance for your purposes.
3. Aluminum is horribly responsive to temperature changes. Ask any owner of a Travis Bean or Kramer aluminum neck what they think of their necks in this respect. Dimensionally unstable as they warm or cool. Any introduction of a second material with different thermal expansion characteristics, such as a wooden fretboard or wooden rear inserts, increases the effect greatly.
3a. The same players often cite the unpleasant feel of a cold aluminum neck. From what I've read, they -never play the instrument cold, -get to the gig early, to get the instrument up to final temperature, -tweak settings if necessary (can't do without a truss rod!) - never stand in the sun.
4. Save for a "hard coat anodize", there's no common process by which aluminum can be made wear-resistant enough to serve as a fret. Once you eventually broke through the hard coat, it would be like butter. So, you'd need to use nylon-wrap strings only, replacing them as soon as you detected that you'd worn through the wrap and exposed the steel.
[edit] Looking at the one guitar with an all-metal neck, it's possible that they have a "hard chrome" plating over it. I think this is doable, with a multistage plating, aluminum->copper->nickel->chromium. This does wear well, although the wear characteristic versus a steel string point contact is fairly severe. Not cheap, though.[/edit]
5. Cast aluminum always produces cavitation. It can be controlled, but never eliminated. So, if you're looking to cast oversize and machine down afterwards, you've got problems, as this can only be done to a limited extent. The bigger the casting, the greater the cavitation.
6. It sounds like you're looking to make this as a single solid piece of aluminum. Aluminum has a density of .098 pounds per cubic inch. Do some figuring of your total volume, to see what your final weight would be. You'll notice that some of the aluminum-bodied instruments pictured are hollow, or have thin bodies.
7. Aluminum is getting pretty expensive in the past few years. Figure that into your reckoning.
If he went with steel theres the problem of rust. However seeing as he wants to cast it he would most likely have to go with a Cast Iron which will break his back instrument form (though it doesn't rust easily). There are 2 main types of cast iron: White and Grey cast.
White is quite brittle so its likely not to last too long. Grey iron contains graphite flakes which dampens vibrations and most likely result in terrible tone.
Here's a solution
Liquidmetal ® vs. Titanium
Pure Energy TransferTM Demo
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Amorphous alloy coatings form a structure very different from crystalline alloy coatings. In the amorphous structure, atoms are randomly placed in a continuous coating, obviating the corrosion-path grain boundaries. The lack of dislocations leads to favorable wear resistance to abrasive particles and metal-to-metal contact, non work-hardening, machineability and, together with the lack of boundaries, leads to a low coefficient of friction, near theoretical strength (and hardness) and outstanding resistance to cavitation. The lack of boundaries leads to improved corrosion resistance and resistance to reaction at elevated temperature (oxidation, sulfidation).
http://www.liquidmetal.com/
Liquidmetal ® vs. Titanium
Pure Energy TransferTM Demo
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Amorphous alloy coatings form a structure very different from crystalline alloy coatings. In the amorphous structure, atoms are randomly placed in a continuous coating, obviating the corrosion-path grain boundaries. The lack of dislocations leads to favorable wear resistance to abrasive particles and metal-to-metal contact, non work-hardening, machineability and, together with the lack of boundaries, leads to a low coefficient of friction, near theoretical strength (and hardness) and outstanding resistance to cavitation. The lack of boundaries leads to improved corrosion resistance and resistance to reaction at elevated temperature (oxidation, sulfidation).
http://www.liquidmetal.com/
