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Double Bass CGDA Tuning, cellist advantage?

#41
JupiterAdept said:
Edicson Ruiz also has a three-string bass for playing high solos, and it sounds brilliant (of course, everything he plays sounds brilliant).
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He is an incredible talent for sure. He also plays this bass with four strings as I believe he had two nuts and bridges made for it. By even removing the lowest string you can reduce a lot of tension on the table of the bass. This is extremely important for older instruments (like his) which were designed for gut strings, which exert less pressure on the top and increase resonance and vibrations across the board.

I should also mention that not all basses can work with a low C, since the amount of vibrations caused by this note can cause too much stress for a very old instrument if the plates are too thin. Many old basses were built along much thinner lines and the number one concern was not the amount of volume you got but rather the quality of tone and sound.
 
#42
I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that a bass should open up in tone with fifths tuning. That's why so many people play solo strings in orchestral tuning. The lower tension definitely helps, although lower tension tends to have other affects such as less articulation and less volume.

How do you guys go about your left hand technique in fifths? Is it all cello-esque fingerings with pivots? I was trying to imagine playing a scale or arpeggio that doesn't use an open string and it just seems riddled with shifts of a third or more quite often.
 
#44
I don't post very often, but I thought I would chime in on this discussion. I am a double bassist who tunes in fifths, and have done so for about four or five years. I realize that most people try tuning in fifths by detuning the E and A strings, which does result in lower tension on the top of the instrument. If you purchase strings that are either designed for fifths tuning (like Obligatos, Velvet 180s or Spirocore 'Red Mitchells') or a mix of solo and orchestral strings (C, F# tuned up, D, A), the tension will actually be very similar to that of a fourths tuned instrument using similar strings.

As for scales and arpeggios, I use a pivot-type of system (not quite four-finger) that allows for a minor third between the first and fourth fingers without actually shifting, and a major third between the fourth and first fingers if you cross to the next string. It involves a little more planning when it comes to playing some things, but I don't find it any more cumbersome than tuning in fourths, and for me the benefits far outweigh the obstacles.
 
#45
You say you don't find it any more cumbersome than tuning in fourths (which is impressive), but if you'd use that pivoting technique on a bass in fourths, you could easily rip through scales without shifting at all. That would be cool..

How long did it take you to learn that pivoting technique? I find it difficult to play in tune if my hand changes shape all the time. I use it occasionaly, though, but only in the lowest position, otherwise I can't play in tune.
 
#47
I guess the pivot system I used is also based loosely on Simandl - I tend to not use my third finger until getting to thumb position. Once you're past about a fourth on the fingerboard, the pivot turns into a stretch or extension. You could think of the pivot as something between a shift and a stretch - your thumb can stay in the same place, but your finger would jump a short distance.

As a good exercise, you could try to play one octave scales up one string only allowing yourself two shifts - what that entails is thinking of every 'grouping' of a tone plus a semitone as one position, and planning your shifts around that. The second finger could either be a tone away from the first finger or the fourth finger. For example, a D major scale on the D string would go 0-1-2-4 - 1-4 - 2-3, and a D dorian minor scale would go 0-1-2-4 - 1-4 - 1-3. D lydian major, though, would go 0-1-4 - 1-2-4 - 2-3. Then, you could do the same scales starting on an Eb on the D string. Eb major would be 1-4 - 1-2-4 - 1-2-3, dorian minor would go 1-2-4 - 1-4 - 1-2-3, lydian would go 1-4 - 1-2-4 - 1-2-3.

To answer your earlier question, my transition to fifths took a good three months of hard practicing and head-smashing-against-wall, then another three months of doing some gigs that were relatively easy, then I was pretty comfortable. I got the chance to study with Joel Quarrington for a while, and if you are interested in playing in fifths it would be well worth your while to try to study with him. He's an amazing and inspiring teacher who has thought long and hard about the instrument. I don't play orchestral music, though. I play mostly jazz and improvised music, and some chamber music.
 
#49
This is probably obvious by now but, after reading this post, I simply detuned the E string (Corelli M's) to D. The bass sounds louder and more resonant overall. Much better A string sound. DAEG seems like a good compromise for tone improvement. Has more to do with the lower tension as far as I can tell.
 
#50
dchan said:
Octaves are no longer playable within the same position: you're going to have to make quite a leap every time you play an octave, making repeating octaves that you might find in some orchestral repertoire a real nightmare.
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Not really. When in fifths tuning, if you play a "C" in first position with your fourth finger on your G string (the string would be your A string in fourths), the octave above would be played with your first finger in the same position on your A string (G string in fourths tuning) . Octaves are the same amount of stretching in fifths as in fourths.
 

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