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Challenge to listen with your ears, not eyes!

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#21
Gabu, that was very good, thanks for your reply, it was just what we need here..respect, courtesy, a little humour, and pics of people who look like they been hit upside the haid with a 2x..uhh sorry. And Mr V- please stick around, it's good to mix with us teal mini van driving rabble once and a while. Roots mon, ya know?

Dancehallcrasher..I rehearsed a lot at a place here in Chicago that had Styx's old monitoring system, which was all Meyers..wedges and sidefills (which included a couple of the 2x15's..2, maybe 4 of them..), which the place used for mains in their "showcase" room. LOUD and DEEP.

I would bring my B-18 and sans, and make sure the soundguy ran a di..this was for rehearsal (though with some pretty up there "artists") and oh man, everyting V sez is right about those cabs.

I tried to buy one when the place went out of business, but no cigar. I seem to remember that they were around $2500 a cab for WELL used, road dog ones..not including the cases and xovers, etc.

I also spent time touring in a band around the US, 3rd on the bill to some acts that were playing 10-20000 seaters, and that PA was a Clair Bros..those sidefills were heaven too..and I was using svt's at the time..Clair Bros sidefills kicked the svt's butt so bad I'd want to bribe the monitor mixer for a few extra db's..

them was the days kiddies.
 
#22
Originally posted by vail_bass
Yeah, It's me!It's not about all out volume, it's about headroom. For my around town club gigs, I use a rig smaller than 2 4x10" cabs. I use a single 18" JBL (I forget the number , but it is the PA woofer , better than the instrument woofer) and a SMALL PA cab ( about the size of a 2x10" cab) with a E-140 JBL and a small horn. This sounds better than (Deeper, fatter, crisper, quicker;remember, SWR 4x10' cabs have so little damping that they actually respond quite slowly!)any bass amp.It also fits in my car,no van required.I use an old Dean Markley DB pre-amp and Carver 2.0t power( 'cause it's light) I've owned or otherwise gigged with every one made,American, Japanese, German, Swedish, you name it !I'm just trying to help those that have not had the good fortune that I have had, and am encouraging them to try new things;don't settle for conventional wisdom or take my word for it ,other than open your eyes and ears and try for yourselves!BTW, when you need that extra push over the edge, it's there!
Click to expand...


Welcome to the board, Vail...nice entrance;)

If the bull in the china shop approach works for you, cool.

I'm not sure if you're saying players or manufacturers have the "weird obsession with tiny 10" speakers for bass". I do know that my rigs consists of a 15" combo, a small 400w EVM powered 15, Eden D210XLT's and a Polytone. I use a few different configurations. Now I'm trying to figure out which one I have the obsession with;)

If you simply wanted people to try the gear you mentioned, I certainly can think of another way to accomplish that but hey...it's your style so...

I don't "need" an 18 for what I'm doing. I know...I've tried. In a lot of cases I can't turn my rig up so the "extra" headroom is an unusable bonus in that case. When I can turn my stuff up, it's fine. I guess I'm lucky enough to play with more than adequate PA's so I let them handle the 18's...I don't need them on stage.

Some people do buy on spec or reputation alone. I don't. It's all about what sounds good to me and the people who hire me. I'm sure it's the same for you. Weird obsession can go both ways;)

I'll stop now before Bruce sees this:D
 
#23
vail,

I'm in west Texas right now, but will be moving to Austin at the start of August. Next time you're in the area drop me a line and I'll try to hear your rig, maybe we could talk gear after the show. Perhaps you will convert me, but as others have said I don't play in venues where I need that much power or speaker area so I'll be a hard sale.

After looking with who you play with I now feel some awe and much more respect for you. At first I thought you were just a trouble maker, that's what I get for making snap decisions of people over the internet. Not to mention you've been really polite to all of us bashing you and your opinions.
 
#24
Vail -

What you are saying makes sense to me, after all
after our preamps give all the tone shaping we want, in theory the amp and cab should just make that louder as neutrally as possibly - whihc is exactly what a PA is supposed to do.

What would be loud, not too big and hi-fi?

THeres plenty of crappy PA stuff, and I believe
in speaker design there can be a tradeoff between volume and sound quality (i mean, how much affordable decent home hifi cabs have a sensitivity of 100db?) without spending oodles of money. Horn tweeters are generally supposed to adversly affect treble etc etc.

For the person that wants something to win out against the mad drummer in the rehersal room and not end up in the dog house after spending all the family vacation money, what models might you (or anyone) recommend?
 
#25
While I don't and will never need any more power than I use right now (Carvin R600, bridged into a PV 115BXBW in small clubs and a PA that handles the rest) I have to agree that I do not care much for 10" speakers.

I have always loved the warmth of a 15". It's the only speaker I will use. I don't like 18"...while they handle the low end great, they are still just a sub-woofer. Anything smaller than a 15" and to me (just my opinion) the sound is too thin.

All talk of 4-10 cabs being able to push more air, while true in theory, just do not cut it for me. I get all the low end punch and clarity (I too like clear definition of notes...but not at the expense of a warm tone to boot) from a single 15" Peavey Black Widow...Yeah, crucify me...:)...I use a single Peavey BW speaker onstage...:)

Like Brad had mentioned, I have experimented with almost everything (make that everything "affordable") and throughout my entire career (No, I'm a nobody...but have been playing for over 20 years and while I'm not a household name, I am still very professional about my music) I seem to always go back to 15" speakers.

I've bi-amped my systems with combinations of 18's, 15's, 12's, 10's, 8's...you name it and I still prefer the sound of a 15" speaker over all. We are still discussing opinions...if it were facts, there would be nothing to choose from would there?
 
#27
You might be surprised. Kenny's been the butt of lots of jokes but Vail's a top-notch bassist and Bruce Carter, whom even less people are familiar with, is a monster. As far as road stories, I'd bet they'd be similar to other Pop or Rock stars.
 
#29
Hey magman, thanks for the open mind. EV makes some very affordable and great sounding ,smallish, cabs. Sam Ash has a great selection, if you live near one of them. Try the Eliminator 1x18" sub, with either a 12 or 15 with horn on the top. Crossover @ approx. 100 for the 15, 150hz for the 12" I think I've seen them on sale for around $300 each.That's a lot cheaper than a couple Goliaths!You'll need 3-400 watts per channel to make them sing.Use a separate pre-amp, power amp set up. The bass amps available that have cross-overs built have too much coloration.
 
#33
( borrowed from: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] )

Flame Warrior: Godzilla

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

"It was a peaceful and productive forum; lively, congenial and a bounteous source of useful information. Then one day, completely without warning, Godzilla arose from the depths and blew his scalding breath on everything in his path. A phalanx of Warriors mobilized to attack the monster, only to be crushed like so many toy tanks under Godzilla's mighty feet. Godzilla soon reduced the forum to searing and consuming flames. Just as abruptly, he rumbled back beneath the waves, leaving all to tremble in fear of his return. Net life would never be the same. Sadly, many netizens who survive a Godzilla attack will become Xenophobes."
 
#34
hmmm, all this discussion about 10's vs 15's.
the general consensus seems to be that
one of each is the best of both worlds. i have
2 bag end 15's and they actually sound great!
sufficient punch, and the roundness of 2 15's.

a valid point was made on another thread:

they are kinda hard to hear up close. esp
when u are next to the drummer.

i guess maybe i should consider an 8 ohm
2x10.

SWR goliath jr. is cool...but when i played it
the cones looked like they were going to leap
outta the box. kinda scared me. any
thoughts?

cheers.
 
#35
Originally posted by vail_bass
BTW, some of you guys are WAY too sensitive!Out here in the real world, 'ya gotta speak up to be heard. Good luck to all, I'm out,VAIL
Click to expand...

Depends on what "real world" you're talking about;). I know guys who travel in the same circles as you do yet they don't seem to need to "speak up" and they are definitely heard. Curious, ain't it?

Consider this: What's with this weird obsession with Kubicki's? Don't Kubicki owners know there's much better stuff out there. Compared to their little underperforming headless basses, anything is better.

Honestly I still don't get what the absence of 10's in a PA proves. I haven't seen a PA with an F-1X preamp either...coincidence?:)

Anyway if you think people here are too sensitive and it has nothing to do with what "you" said in the original post, cool. I understand.
 
#38
Chuckle, chuckle, y'all. Please remember, if you're offended, that is YOUR problem. Everyone here has their own opinion, I for one have always disliked the sound of Bose speakers, preferring Infinity's sound. Trash me, I don't care! If there were one true sound, there would only be ONE brand of speaker! Of course, Vail is correct in stating that many brands have a particular COLOR to their sound. I play through an Ampeg 8x8 cabinet that sounded better to ME than the __________(fill in the blank - it doesn't matter!) other cabinets I tried before choosing the 8x8. In fact, I had another combination of cabs in mind for a long time. Do I care what you play and are passionate about? Actually, yes. It is the reason I come here. Would I like some of you to gush over my choice of equipment? Yup, that ol' approval of your peers thing, I guess. So, come on, tell me how my 8's suck or rule, I can take it!
 
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