electracoyote- The burst model IS being made over there. Alibaba is but ONE source of Chinese-made bass guitars. I have seen the burst offered at two other places (TradeTang? DHGate?). I still want one in "natural".
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Chinabacker 4005
- Thread starter sing-modulator
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- copy fake rickenbacker
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The ethics and morality behind selling a counterfeit a fake or a rip off or whatever is a subject that's been done to death.
But it's important that we all understand that buying counterfeit is not theft. Two plus two isn't five, the sky isn't green, and buying counterfeit isn't theft.
But it's important that we all understand that buying counterfeit is not theft. Two plus two isn't five, the sky isn't green, and buying counterfeit isn't theft.
Finally......ANYONE who can afford a "real" Rickenbacker 4005, fully knows the difference between an original and a copy. They are too expensive NOT to be fastidiously appraised before purchase. NO ONE is going to be harmed, fooled, horn-swoggled, cheated or anything else because of these Chinese copies of a DEFUNCT model that RIC used to make, years ago.
I agree that buying a copy of a bass thats been out of production for 50 years isnt theft. Also for consideration is the fact that rics will sell for high prices regardless of whatever copies are made, because only a ric is a ric!
You could buy it, but there is a chance that the shipment will be stopped and confiscated at the port of entry here as that company is most likely on an import 'watch list' for counterfeited US products. Then you are out your purchase price.
Maybe it is shipped in a plain brown wrapper
Maybe it is shipped in a plain brown wrapper
Perhaps, but ONLY if you were foolish enough to NOT specify leaving the Truss Rod Cover BLANK when you order. Without that identifier, NO customs agent would give it a second thought, even if YOUR package was the one in 10,000 that got randomly opened that day!
Now if we want to REALLY get worked up, howsabout THIS:
Chinese copy of a Fodera Ying-Yang bass anyone? Not for me, thanks. I'm still after a 4005 wallhanger, thank you.
Chinese copy of a Fodera Ying-Yang bass anyone? Not for me, thanks. I'm still after a 4005 wallhanger, thank you.
Lets go over this step by step.
Rickenbacker owns the rights to produce and sell this bass or any facsimile thereof. They can make it themselves or license to a third party, but they own it. Intellectual property is real and valuable. The world economy turns on this principle.
Rickenbacker has the right to be paid for the first sale of any such bass.
The act of counterfeiting this bass is stealing the intellectual property of Rickenbacker. For each one, a new bass is introduced into the world, diluting the scarcity of existing basses and potentially devaluing the worth of authentic basses. Whoever manufactures this bass is outright stealing. And as a side point many if not all counterfeit at scale organizations have ties to organized crime along with human and drug trafficking, but that is beside the point.
Now, if someone committed burglary in your negihborhood, that would be one crime. However, if you agreed to buy some of the stolen goods you would become an accessory to the crime. Your money funds the present and future incidences of that crime.
Similalry, when you fund a counterfeiting operation you are an accesory to intellectual property theft.
Like it or not, this is an extremely cut and dry. The only thing ridiculous here is your opposing and wholly unsubstantiable viewpoint.
Actually, you can be arrested for knowingly purchasing counterfiet goods. The crime - theft.
Good point. There's an outside chance, since I've seen some people make some very bad and uninformed choices with used and vintage gear, but it's relatively rare.
Oh, thanks.
Haven't had GAS in a long time, but I suddenly feel something burning in my wallet.
"Like it or not, this is an extremely cut and dry."
No, it's most assuredly NOT cut and dry. NO ONE has ever been convicted of a CRIME for ordering a Chinese copy of a copyright-protected guitar for private use. NO ONE. Someone ordering multiple copies with a provable motive of reselling for profit COULD be, but the worst that could happen to a private individual is the confiscation of his order at customs (high odds against). Ridiculous assertion.
No, it's most assuredly NOT cut and dry. NO ONE has ever been convicted of a CRIME for ordering a Chinese copy of a copyright-protected guitar for private use. NO ONE. Someone ordering multiple copies with a provable motive of reselling for profit COULD be, but the worst that could happen to a private individual is the confiscation of his order at customs (high odds against). Ridiculous assertion.
I don't know that it's totally fair to claim the body is an IP violation. Protective patents expire, and all IP violations cases carry a burden to prove substantive financial damages to the holder of the protected IP. Making a replica of a discontinued model with an unknown trademark status is murky legal water. This, by the by, is without broaching the subject of how specific the definitions of your trademark are. EBMM owns the rights to the 3/1 tuning key config, and yet you'll still see the occasional headstock with the same orientation.
The TRC is a different issue. It must be blank or it's a fraudulent claim about origin, unless the TRC was made in the USA. In that case you can slap that bad boy on a chinese instrument and technically be ok. Talk about wonky statement of origins law, am I right?
The ethics of the issue is different. I personally think OP is fine to buy a Chinese fake because he knows it for what it is- a Chinese fake. He can personally enjoy it as eye candy, or mod the hell out of it so long as he doesn't say it's a Ric. With the number of close imitations in the bass world, I don't think it's fair to crawl over him for wanting an imitation of a very expensive/ difficult to obtain object for his own private enjoyment. I personally don't think gigging with it would be in good taste though.
The TRC is a different issue. It must be blank or it's a fraudulent claim about origin, unless the TRC was made in the USA. In that case you can slap that bad boy on a chinese instrument and technically be ok. Talk about wonky statement of origins law, am I right?
The ethics of the issue is different. I personally think OP is fine to buy a Chinese fake because he knows it for what it is- a Chinese fake. He can personally enjoy it as eye candy, or mod the hell out of it so long as he doesn't say it's a Ric. With the number of close imitations in the bass world, I don't think it's fair to crawl over him for wanting an imitation of a very expensive/ difficult to obtain object for his own private enjoyment. I personally don't think gigging with it would be in good taste though.
Citation please. I'm ready to be proven wrong.
I own a Chinese copy of a Tuba.
Only it DOES NOT have Miraphone, Made in Germany stamped on it!!
I want a 4005. I cannot afford a 4005. However, this is not a 4005, and buying one would just be stupid and vain.
Just because you say so does not make any of what you say true. Does it have to be a Chinese Rickenbacker copy, or could it be a Lousi Vuitton bag or Mont Blanc pen? Are there special morals and laws that apply to Chinese Rickenbacker copies that don't apply to other trademarked or copyrighted goods? Framing your argument by narrowing down the pool to one very specific product is obviously flawed. And most certainly people have been arrested for buying counterfiet products for personal use.
Same way the authorities are trying to curb human trafficking - they go after the Johns.
That didn't take long...
FLATIRON — Police swept a stretch of Sixth Avenue last week, arresting a handful of unlicensed vendors or those selling counterfeit goods, according to police reports.
Over the course of several hours on April 23 officers arrested five people on Sixth Avenue between West 24th and West 28th streets for either selling merchandise on the sidewalk without a vendor’s license or slinging fake luxury brands, police said.
The arrests, which took place between 12:40 and 3:15 p.m., netted a vendor selling counterfeit Burberry cologne and four merchants selling items like T-shirts, hats and finger puppets, according to police reports.
The vendors, who ranged in age from 18 to 61, were charged with violations under the city’s administrative code and given desk appearance tickets, requiring them to appear in court at a later date, according to police.
5 Street Vendors Arrested in One Day in Police Sweep of Sixth Ave: NYPD
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