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Choosing a "clean" preamp/DI

#41
A Bass And Its Boy said:
Do you know what tone stack you want your pre/DI to emulate? Fender/Alembic? Baxandall/Ampeg? Something solid state? Being able to identify that will be a huge step in eliminating what you DON'T want to try.
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I've been using mainly Fender and Ampeg (digital) emulations so far. Most of them with light OD.

Here are some examples of the tones I used to use with my (now defunct) unit.

Tamer tone with a P with flats

A more aggressive one with the same P

Now mind you, that P has a low output pickup AND flats. The next one has quite hot pickups and rounds.

Tame 1

Medium

And this one's pretty much the most aggressive I get with OD, unless I'm covering something like RATM, which, again, I'm not using full on distortion, just a touch more overdrive.

Now I'like something a little more... "polished" than those digital emulations, hence the bump in the budget. They were satisfactory, especially in a mix but... yeah...
 
#43
HoochfromP said:
With a P a FMV tonestack is great imo. It's fat and its mid scooped voicing pairs nicely with Pbass mids bump.
Click to expand...

I'm not that familiar with the nomenclature, sorry. Does that mean essentially a passive tone stack where the mids are dimed and you only have the bass and treble controls as "boost only" - at least relative to the mids? Kinda like the Sadowsky SBP-1 pedal?

And by the way, I need this to work with different basses, as well, with different output levels.
 
#44
Gothic said:
The Sansamp offerings have me a bit confused. I kinda sorta like most of them but I feel they're lacking something and I just can't get over the lack of mids and mid control (say on the BDDI).
Click to expand...

I was going to say have you tried a sans amp? I have one and it is an always on pedal. I use it mostly for the Blend knob which I will set anywhere from half way to full on. I also use the Presense to add some clarity and mids to dial back in some mid range when needed. You will note on the V2 linked below (which is the one I have) it DOES have mids and also has a mid shift button to swap between 500hz and 1000hz which you can then boost or cut. Same goes for Bass with a 40/80hz shift. Something to consider. Best of luck finding your tone.


Invalid Link Removed
 
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#45
3bc said:
I will throw out a tone hammer 350 or 500. Even if you don't use it as a head. The drive circuit in the tone hammer head is incredibly flexible and musical. The drive in the tone hammer pedal is not nearly as useful.
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I will add, I have a lot of available di boxes/pres. I have a Neve 1073, an SSL, an avalaon, radial JDI, a dark glass element, a UAD with most of the different emulations, etc. I use the pre/DI on the tone hammer every time. Running that through the 1073 is perfection. Occasionally the 1073 adds more saturation than a particular sound calls for and I'll back off on the mic pre.
 
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#47
Gothic said:
Alright, I'm starting a new thread on this to keep things a bit more clear. I got a bit more money to spend and I'm looking to get a good preamp/DI box.

My sound is mainly clean. A touch of OD but that's as far as I'll go with distortion. Never use fuzz or straight up distortion at all, don't need it, don't like, don't want it. I mainly play rock, in all its various incarnations. Bit of metal in there too but nothing that would need distortion.

A dealbreaker would be a noisy signal. I need a good DI and noise is a no-no.

The main purpose of this is to have a consistent tone as well as add some character, warmth and "oomph" to whatever I'm playing. Over here, backline is always provided and I don't wanna rely on whatever's available, save for monitoring, basically. So I need something both for recording direct, as well as being able to just send it straight to the FOH and go from there. In the future, I'll get IEM to go completely ampless.

I'm gonna start with the ones that are above my price range. Mesa Subway, Microbass III, Bass Butler, Markbass vintage pre, anything Noble. And being in Europe, I can't really find any of those used. Even if I did, the used prices aren't low enough for me to afford them.

The contenders are:

Aguilar Tone Hammer: From the many videos I've seen, it seems a bit... bland. I find it uninspiring and very "mild". The AGS thing also seems to be something that I'd use set waaaaay down, just to add a bit of hair. For anything else, it seems to be just obnoxious and also jacks up the volume so it doesn't seem like something you could use as a discreet OD setting, just a set and forget kinda thing.
All in all, it's on the very bottom of my list but it gets so many accolades here it's got me curious if there's something I'm not hearing.

GK Plex: This thing has everything AND the kitchen sink. Big plusses are the cab sim, compressor and tuner, which you can't find on most other stuff. Also various voicings and nice EQ options. I quite like it although my only concern is that it does kinda tend to get a bit more... digital or hi-fi than I'd like. Less warm, more "clinical", so to speak.

Le Bass: This one's pretty confusing. I love the tube aspect. Don't know if it's a starved plate kinda thing but it does seem to sound much warmer than the rest. However, I have no use for the distortion settings and from what I gather, those tend to be a big part of this pedal. Otherwise, honestly, this one sounded the best to me.

EBS Valve Drive: I'd used the older version in the past. Really liked it back then but I again, I'm not quite sure about it. Seems quite limited in its options and just a bit "gimmicky" with the tube. It gets a nice tone but lacks further tone shaping features and that places it lower on my list.

The outliers/unknowns:

DG Alpha-Omega: I briefly thought about this one but it seems its main thing is pretty nasty distortion and that would just be useless to me. Using it for cleans might not be the best tactic, considering there are other ones that do that kinda thing better.

DSM & Humboldt Simplifier: Total unknown. I literally know nothing of this thing and it seems to be more of a cab sim than a preamp. I find cab sims extremely useful but... yeah. Enlighten me.

QStrip: This one also seems to be popular around here as a clean pedal but I must say, I'm not impressed. If anything, I think it was underwhelming and, apart from the VERY useful HPF & LPF options, to me, it doesn't sound like it adds any character or does anything more than a good dedicated EQ pedal couldn't do. But again, maybe I'm just plain wrong.

The Sansamp offerings have me a bit confused. I kinda sorta like most of them but I feel they're lacking something and I just can't get over the lack of mids and mid control (say on the BDDI).


Another option I thought about was going for something like the Presonus Studio Channel. It's a tube driven studio preamp with a nice parametric EQ and a compressor with extensive settings. It might not get me any grit but I suppose any soft OD pedal can do that job on the cheap. Other than that, this thing seems to have everything one might need. Only thing that holds me back is the rack format which isn't as easy to lug around as a single pedal you can just throw in the gigbag and be done with it.


So... help?

Many thanks
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I've been using a WTDI for a few years now. That's an Eden DI pedal with a built-in Eden WT preamp. The sound you describe is very much the sound it delivers. I have a few Eden amps and this DI pedal is both dead-quiet and it sounds just as warm as my big 800-watt Eden amp with its hybrid preamp. I paid $149 for mine and now they seem to go for around $159 to $179. It absolutely is the best $149 I ever spent.

I got mine because we played a small brewpub about 40 to 45 times a year and they wouldn't let me bring in my 410 cab. Rather they insisted I use their little Peavey 112 combo. I just couldn't get the sound I wanted out of that combo, so I bought the WTDI and plugged it into the Peavey's effects-return. Lo and behold that little Peavey now sounded like an Eden amp! I've since used it with all kinds of backlines: GK, acoustic, Ampeg, Markbass, etc. and I've made all of them sound like an Eden amp.

I've also used it numerous times direct to FOH and used it at a professional recording studio in Seattle in 2019. I was amazed at the sound of my raw track as were the engineer and owner. They had me listen to the raw recording after our 3-hour session and said, "that's exactly as you sent it to me. We have not adjusted EQ at all nor have we put any compression on it. Just a Great sound!" I ran it flat with a little boost in the low-mids at 500Hz with my passive Jazz.

Here's a shot of it:
WTDI_458x354.jpg

It has the XLR out and 1/4" out on the left; bass, mid, and treble EQ on top row with both a bass boost button and mid-shift button. The bass boost allows you to boost the bass without boosting treble or cutting the mids. The mid-shift allows you to adjust the low-mids centered at 500Hz or the High-mids centered at 2KHz - one or the other not both at once.

On the bottom row you have gain to adjust strength of the input signal, but unfortunately no set light. If you listen closely when setting the gain for your bass, you can hear when it reaches the "sweet spot". The Enhance boosts the bass and treble and scoops the mids. It's very easy to dial yourself into oblivion if you run this much above 9 o'clock because you really need those low-mids to give you definition and presence in the mix. The compressor is a simple one control effect and as you dial it up it affects both the threshold and the ratio. I only use it on one song we play (Time After Time by Cyndi Lauper) but works well. Finally is the master, which controls the over all signal. I usually run it around 11 or 12 o'clock but if going into an FOH be sure to tell tech that you can adjust the level if he needs you to. Input is on the right side and it also has a bypass stomp if you want to use it for some reason.

That's a really nice DI with simple but very musical preamp. The sound is clean, clear, warm,and articulate and it comes with its own power supply (15v). This has a Magic Ear chip (THAT4301 if I recall correctly) that supplies the warmth among other things. The warmth is the same as I get out of my big Eden WT500/800 amp, which has a hybrid preamp (uses a tube for warmth). Definitely worth a look!
 
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#49
I have the Le Bass; it is warm, smooth sounding, and on the clean side, super clean!

I felt like the tone needed more mid control than the onboard knobs offered, so I paired it with the Tech 21 Q Strip to have more tone shaping options(just me). Probably any eq pedal through the Le Bass' effects loop would suffice, and you might like the onboard eq the way it is.

I too am a clean player, but the dirt channel on this is not overdone, it gets a good grit factor that is useful when using other effects like phaser or envelope, which I do a little. I like using the Cold Fusion mode of combining both for this, thus being abke to add just a biult of grit.

Overall I've been pleased with it. It's a bit pricey but not as high as a Noble, and from eveything I've listened to demo wise, equal in tone.
 
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#50
Gothic said:
I've been using mainly Fender and Ampeg (digital) emulations so far.
Click to expand...

The Ampeg tone stack is super easy to find—that'll be your SansAmps, your Subways, your DSM Simplifiers and your Arkham Oracles, to name a few. Me, I'm not a fan.

The Fender tone stack is in pedals like the Noble, which you've ruled out for cost. You might take a look at the Suncoast F2P, which is a really versatile Alembic-based pedal that unfortunately doesn't currently come with a built-in DI, but which you could run to one of the tiny Whirlwinds.

I also like the Markbass pre (not sure what that's based on) and the Jule Amps Monique/Simone pres although those are outside of your specified price range.

if only SWR had lasted long enough to make a Redhead preamp pedal… but that's just me dreaming.

Then again, you have something like the v1 Hartke Bass Attack preamp which is surprisingly versatile for a solid state pre, and even has some tube-like voodoo that you can dial in—and you can pick one of those up used for about $150.
 
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#53
Gothic said:
Do you have one? Care to share your experience? I'm still very, VERY undecided...

edit: I mean the Plex.
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I have the Plex...But this would be for an analog GK pedal.
The Plex is great but sometimes analog is nice as well.
 
#54
The DSM & Humboldt Simplifier Bass Station is the next item on my purchase list. Every online demo is amazing, as is the guitar version of the Simplifier, which I already own.

I'd recommend any of the Tech21NYC BDDI v2, PDDI v2, VTDI v2, or Q\Strip.

I'd recommend the Darkglass Microtubes B7K Ultra for clean sounds, very flexible EQ. You don't have to turn the gain knob up.

What's on my board currently is the Boss AD-2 Acoustic Preamp, BC-1X Bass Comp, and BB-1X Bass Driver. I just need right angle TRS to XLR-M pigtails. Once I get the Simplifier Bass Station, the plan is to replace these with a Boss GT-1000Core.

I also recommend the Countryman Type 85. It's always in my gig bag, just in case, or in my toolbox, if I'm engineering instead of performing.

You should also consider the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ/DI.
 
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#55
3bc said:
I will add, I have a lot of available di boxes/pres. I have a Neve 1073, an SSL, an avalaon, radial JDI, a dark glass element, a UAD with most of the different emulations, etc. I use the pre/DI on the tone hammer every time. Running that through the 1073 is perfection. Occasionally the 1073 adds more saturation than a particular sound calls for and I'll back off on the mic pre.
Click to expand...

Is your 1073 a real deal vintage Neve unit? I have 2 Vintech x73i preamps, and while their built-in DIs are less than stellar, I'm tempted to try running another preamp or standalone DI through the Vintech mic pre inputs.
 
#56
Again, many, many thanks for all the suggestions!

So far, I think the best out of the bunch is the Simplifier. Perhaps it's the cab sim options but I also find its EQ the most "musical", so to speak. Surprisingly, I also really like the Eden WTDI! Especially at less than half the price of the Simplifier... It lacks the overall tone shaping capabilities the DSM has but still, quite sweet sounding. I'm also still on the verge about the Le Bass, as well.

Some of your suggestions I just can't find (Suncoast F2P), others are wayyyy above my budget (max would be just a little north of 300 euros) like the Olympic (which I can't even find in Europe) or the Bass Butler. Also, a straight up DI just doesn't do it for me. Especially ones that cost 5 or 6 hundred...

I'm also ruling out MXR and Tech21. The MXR stuff I just can't gel with, compared to the rest. The Tech21 offerings all seem to have a harshness to them I can't exactly pinpoint that I really dislike. To be honest, I much preferred the Darkglass stuff to them!
Tone Hammer's also out. Just doesn't seem like it'd be to my tastes, overall.

By the way, please don't take offense if you use any of the above. I'm not knocking them, they're just not my thing. At least from what I can tell from sound demos and videos!
 
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#59
Soooo, sitrep with a little update that topples the whole thing.

I've spoken with a couple of sound guys here as well as other gigging bassists and, apparently, it's grim news.
Dudes never get a straight DI out of anyone's equipment. They have their own box that gets an amp signal and that's it. They rarely -if ever- blend it with a mic from the amp, which, in most cases, is either some SVT something (non tube) that's farty at best and half the features just plain don't work, or some kind of older GK model with somewhat similar shortcomings. The most popular venue has an 8x10 while a couple of others one 4x10. In some cases, you might only get a 1x15. I vividly remember that 8x10 and I can safely say it's half dead.
So, all in all, a crapshoot.

Main takeaway from this is the fact that they insist on using their own DI and flat out refuse to use the player's, which means a preamp box would be useless if I have to use it in front of an amp.
Come to think of it, the last time I played there myself (right before the whole 2020 thing started), the sound guy refused get the DI from my unit and neither could I go through the FX loop to bypass the amp's preamp because, apparently, it was one of those things that didn't work (???). Thing is, I tried regardless and it really didn't. How, I don't know. Which meant I had to disable cab sims and make adjustments that made me sound... well, let's just say less than stellar.

Point is, I can't send my own DI out, so that renders the whole plan scrapped.

Only thing they'll allow is for you to use your own amp but I can neither afford one right now, nor can I haul one (spinal issues) even if I did. The cab, I mean, I can carry a small, lightweight SS amp. I think!

So umm... what do you do in this situation? :help:
 
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#60
The Sansamp VT Bass DI is excellent can do mild grit & oomph really well! It sounds great to FOH and has the flexibility of sending with the processed or unprocessed signal to your stage amp if any so super flexible. It's like 1 of my 2 fav live DI/ pedals.

The Dark Glass Alpha Omega is the other fav DI/ dirt / preamp pedal. It has a wide variety of the sounds and can do subtle gain / grit quite well!! I original got it for over the top type drive sounds but fell in love with how great it was at low gain sounds. It just brings out this aggressive , growly mids character I love and I think is great for the styles of music you describe. It also had a great XLR out and the Ultra version has a cab sim option that sounds fantastic to FOH
It's definitely worth a look it can do much more than the higher gain metal type sounds it's often demoed as.
It is more $$ than the Sansamp but to me it's worth it.

I know you said it's out of your price range but the EBS MicroBass III is also soo soo good. It could be worth the extra savings..

If you're looking for a solution for FOH / multiple back lines and ultimately going IEM / ampless take a little time demo as many as you can and it can be worth it to save and get exactly what you want sound wise as you'll be very happy every time you plug in a play. Quality only hurts once !
 
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