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Chord Sheets, Modes, Better Practice?

Hey Groovin1122, regarding your second question: it's cool to stick to the roots, many band leaders (and piano players) like that. But always make sure that your pulse, groove, thump, feel, or whatever you want to call it, is solid and appropriately dominant in the band mix. This matters more than many notes. Work on rhythmic variations with the 1, 5 and octave - great players get amazing mileage out of these three tones alone when they need to sound great yet familiar. Like others have said, know your four basic chord tones cold: 1, 3, 5 7; practice walking these across jazz tunes even if it doesn't feel inspired at first (irealpro app). Regarding your first question: definitely use the modes, along with your ears, to determine the correct/appropriate (two) half step intervals within your chord: for a major chord symbol you must know if the 4 is raised (lydian, half step between 4 and 5), or if the 7 is flatted (half step between 6 and 7). Same for minor chords. Perceiving which diatonic half steps support the melody will give you a major advantage in improvising bass lines and solos and in songwriting. Regarding your third question: make a plan for your performance and stick to it. All the great musicians from Charlie Parker to Stevie Ray Vaughn practiced a "routine" that they rehearsed then exhibited in performance. Do not rehearse a practice session in a performance! Do not be unsure about what you're going to deliver to the audience or your bandmates/bandleader. Improvising is about confidence, and taking chances with what you know could be possible, it's not about living in uncertainty (imho). It's awesome that you know your neck and notes, so work it all out and then execute your schtick at performance. Assess, reformulate and grow. Practice methodically and slowly, but don't perform that way. Sounds like you have a lot of good things going on and you'll make some good advances soon, good luck!
 
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I almost missed this because your response is buried in the quotete box .

It's all the key if C, but that does not mean one plays a C on the first beat of the ii chord. That's why knowing chord tones is the starting point, not modes or scales. For the Dmin7 your target notes to define the harmony are the D F and A. But how you get to the G7 with its GBDF is open to a lot of stylistic choices. It's not at all about running a C major diatonic scale under the progression, it's about the mental focus on that scale and how those three chords function together to define C major tonality.
 
Fact is Context trumps most theory.

For the eternal question "What do I play over these chords?"
The rarely spoken truth is that, after the root ( and maybe chord tones)
the answer comes from the style of music more than scales, keys or modes or other theory.

thus it's not a theory problem to be solved by more theory
but a vocabulary problem to be solved by more repertoire

This is how you get the cliche "Famous Guy who doesn't know theory" : they have a large vocabulary.
( but because the do not know theory their understanding is incomplete )
 
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1. Modes are just names for scales and relationships that already exist in the music.

2. Roots are never wrong, especially on the downbeat of a chord change.

3. Which position to play a given note in? Let's take a principle from Simandl and say that you should choose the position which makes the NEXT note easiest.

All of these issues can be addressed by close study of a piece you will be playing, as follows.

For #1, you will determine which series of notes work best for the chord series, and you don't even have to name the mode.

For #2, you can determine what other notes can be played over the duration of a given chord, and most importantly, what the best passing or leading notes could be.

For #3, knowing where you are going ahead of time resolves the position choice.

Not to hijack the thread, but what is the difference between passing and leading tones? I'm thinking passing tones connect two notes (like maybe chromaticism) and leading tones pull you along harmonically forward? Am I off base? Thanks.
 
Not to hijack the thread, but what is the difference between passing and leading tones? I'm thinking passing tones connect two notes (like maybe chromaticism) and leading tones pull you along harmonically forward? Am I off base? Thanks.

No, you are correct!

A passing tone is a note between two "stable" tones, i.e., ones that are "in" the chord triad. Examples (key of C major): a D between E and C, or F between E and G.

A leading tone "leads" to the next chord. Again, key of C major, any of the notes in the G chord - G, B, D - lead to a C chord. B has the strongest desire because it is closest to C.
 
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No, you are correct!

A passing tone is a note between two "stable" tones, i.e., ones that are "in" the chord triad. Examples (key of C major): a D between E and C, or F between E and G.

A leading tone "leads" to the next chord. Again, key of C major, any of the notes in the G chord - G, B, D - lead to a C chord. B has the strongest desire because it is closest to C.
Thanks so much...really helpful!
 
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#1. If it is ii V I, there's no, absolutely no utility in thinking of three different modes.

I don't necessarily agree with this. You could use different modes for [ii V I (major key)] VS [ii V i (minor key)]

However one particular problem IMHO, is the modes get pretty messy when you start dealing with harmonic and jazz/melodic minor.

Also, there is benefit to learning the same material using different strategies. The literature on multi-faceted teaching says you gain a deeper understanding of what is going on, you're more likely to remember, and your recall can be enhanced.

For example if you relate to the ii chord in a major key, and also relate to is as Dorian mode, you are using two mental concepts to understand what is going on under the ii chord.

When I am playing over chord charts, my mental process tends to change. Some times I play by ear, sometime I think of chord tones or target notes, sometime I think in relation to the home key or a mode, sometime I think in terms of finger patterns (box shapes), etc.

There is rarely a absolute need to really think modally. Examples when I think you need to know your modes are the various songs that are modal in nature, like "So What" and "Impressions." Both of these tunes are Dorian mode.

I have practiced the 7 regular modes quite a bit over the years. To me it's sort of like learning the major key inside out.

I don't use modes that much when I am playing, but occasionally I might think Dorian over a ii chord. But some would suggest Dorian is use more broadly in jazz. Here's an article you might like: Everything You Don't Know About Minor Harmony in Jazz • Jazzadvice
 
Not to hijack the thread, but what is the difference between passing and leading tones? I'm thinking passing tones connect two notes (like maybe chromaticism) and leading tones pull you along harmonically forward? Am I off base? Thanks.
Originally, the leading tone is "Ti" resolving upwards to "Do". By extention, it is frequently used to mean an unstable note resolving by semi-tone (upwards or, less frequently, downwards) to a stable note (chord tone).

A passing tone is non-chord tone played, as the name suggests, between 2 chord tones in a scalar (stepwise) motion. Passsing tones are most frequently diatonic notes, but may also be chromatic notes (in particular when 2 chord tones are a whole tone appart, like 1 and b7).
 
If you care to help I have a few questions that would really help me out by answering.

#1: MODES: I've been learning my modes and I have them down pretty well - as well as scale degrees and their qualities. So if it's a 251 progression should I play 2 Dorian, 5 Mixolydian, 1 Ionian? Or just focus on the major/minor qualities and throw in model stuff for some flair? Any advice on making use of them?

#2: When reading Chord Sheets for a lot of worship/rock music I feel stuck on the root. Especially when the chords change a lot. Like I don't feel confident in adding in other notes and worry about missing the next chord change. I understand a lot of theory but when in the moment I feel glued to my root notes. Would love any advice...

#3: Knowing my fretboard well can sometimes make me feel slower when playing over a chord sheet because I could play a note in a few different places on the neck. Any advice on making decisions quicker? This also applies to walking bass lines. Moving from one chord to the next the thought on where is next feels slower because there are a few things I could do to get to a few different places where the next root is. This is a live in the moment thing I experience.


You are off to a really good start IMHO, but it's going to take time before you can use this material fluently.

#1. Thinking in terms of Dorian, Mixolydian, and Ionian?

I think there is some potential benefit as changing your mental process can help stir creativity. But you need understand that in one context D Dorian, G Mixolydian, and C Ionian are just different ways of describing the same notes. This is why I consider studying modes sort of learning the major keys inside out. You can think of C Major over the V chord, or you can think of G Mixolydian. The notes are the same, but the way you think about the notes is different, so you may instinctually make different note choices.

Another thing I think practicing modes does is prepare you hand to play the different modes automatically. If you do happen to think Mixolydian over the V, then your fingers know where to go without you thinking of the notes names. However, if you want to take this approach, then you need to have some idea how modes will relate to the minor keys as well.

Generally a V chord is going to have a dominant shape, in other words a major 3rd and minor 7th that have a tritone relationship to each other. In Major, V will infer Mixolydian. In minor, a V is generally going to be Phrygian Dominant (V in harmonic minor) or Mixolydian b6 (V in jazz/melodic minor). In natural minor the v is a minor chord and Phrygian mode. You won't see this very often.

#2 When reading Chord Sheets for a lot of worship/rock music I feel stuck on the root.

This may or may not be a problem. You should play something that is appropriate, and roots almost always fit. More importantly, you want to avoid playing notes that do not fit. In the genres you are playing, there may not be much room for notes other than the third.

If you want to practice and solidify your knowledge, I suggest practicing genres where there is an expectation to play more than the root. You may not be a huge fan of jazz, but learning to play walking bass is a good way to explore music theory and solidify you ability to play melodically.

3# Knowing my fretboard well can sometimes make me feel slower when playing over a chord sheet because I could play a note in a few different places on the neck.

Generally the closest note is the best from a technical standpoint. When you have a hard bass line to master, you will consider where to shift. The idea is to shift at a point that does not impact your ability to play the line. Different players may make different choices. Also the best choice can depend on where the line is coming from and where it is going. For example, you may have a line that starts low on the neck and ends high. So you have to find an efficient way of moving up the neck.

To expand on this a bit. I started on 4-string bass guitar. At some point I transitioned to 5-string, and then a few years later I transitioned to 6-string. While this was going on, I also changed from Simandl fingering, which uses 1,2,4, to one finger one fret (OFPF) which uses 1,2,3,4. The system of shifting and fingering I use now is totally different than the system I started with. With a 6-string, the easiest thing is generally to play across the strings. With 4-string you have to shift up and down the neck much more.

Another factor is playing in different ranges of the neck can impact the resultant tone. So although my natural tendency is to play across the strings, I may choose to shift up the neck if I want a thicker sound.

My advice is realize that music is a life-long journey and not a destination. If you stay engaged, you will continue to learn and develop throughout your life.

You seem to be off to a great start, but you need to find appropriate opportunities to use what you have learned. An experienced player will avoid overplaying in circumstances where it is not appropriate and desirable. So if the song really calls for roots, only play roots.

Generally the bass is expected to lay down the foundation and other instruments build the harmony and melody on top of the bass line. If you don't fill this expected roll when it's necessary, people will not want to play with you.

If you don't like playing the bass because you find it too limiting, you could always move to guitar or keys. IMHO keyboard/piano is really the best instrument for learning theory anyway.
 
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Here is what I think:

1. Yes. (ii V I) can absolutely be Dorian, Mixolydian, Ionian. This will sound good, and make it easy to outline the chords by sticking to one key signature. However, this is not the only option. Match the chord tones with the scale tones to find alternate scales/modes that work.
2. Roots are fine, then add a 3rd and/or 5th. After that match the chord tones with different scales to find different melodic variety.
3. Knowing the fretboard should make you play smoother. If it sounds choppy, then there is likely a better way to play the line. Visualizing the fretboard and practicing position shifting is key. Knowing the fretboard and using it efficiently are two different things.
 
If you care to help I have a few questions that would really help me out by answering.

#1: MODES: I've been learning my modes and I have them down pretty well - as well as scale degrees and their qualities. So if it's a 251 progression should I play 2 Dorian, 5 Mixolydian, 1 Ionian? Or just focus on the major/minor qualities and throw in model stuff for some flair? Any advice on making use of them?

#2: When reading Chord Sheets for a lot of worship/rock music I feel stuck on the root. Especially when the chords change a lot. Like I don't feel confident in adding in other notes and worry about missing the next chord change. I understand a lot of theory but when in the moment I feel glued to my root notes. Would love any advice...

#3: Knowing my fretboard well can sometimes make me feel slower when playing over a chord sheet because I could play a note in a few different places on the neck. Any advice on making decisions quicker? This also applies to walking bass lines. Moving from one chord to the next the thought on where is next feels slower because there are a few things I could do to get to a few different places where the next root is. This is a live in the moment thing I experience.

#1: Don't get obsessed with modes. Get obsessed with arpeggios instead. First just chord tones, then extensions. Take it from someone who obsessed over modes for years.

#2: You feel stuck on the root. GOOD. Get good at that and making every change without even thinking about it. While you're doing that, learn some bass lines recorded in the genres of your choice. They're already doing the thing you want to do, so learn some songs note for note and the "theory" of it comes after.

#3: Time, practice, experience. Here, let me make your life harder: Eventually you should consider the timbre of the note that you want. So if you want a big, fat F, you could play it A string 8th fret. If you want it to sound a little thinner, maybe blend better with the arrangement of the song, go for it on D string 3rd fret.
 
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