Chord Sheets, Modes, Better Practice?

[Groovin1122]

If you care to help I have a few questions that would really help me out by answering.

#1: MODES: I've been learning my modes and I have them down pretty well - as well as scale degrees and their qualities. So if it's a 251 progression should I play 2 Dorian, 5 Mixolydian, 1 Ionian? Or just focus on the major/minor qualities and throw in model stuff for some flair? Any advice on making use of them?

#2: When reading Chord Sheets for a lot of worship/rock music I feel stuck on the root. Especially when the chords change a lot. Like I don't feel confident in adding in other notes and worry about missing the next chord change. I understand a lot of theory but when in the moment I feel glued to my root notes. Would love any advice...

#3: Knowing my fretboard well can sometimes make me feel slower when playing over a chord sheet because I could play a note in a few different places on the neck. Any advice on making decisions quicker? This also applies to walking bass lines. Moving from one chord to the next the thought on where is next feels slower because there are a few things I could do to get to a few different places where the next root is. This is a live in the moment thing I experience.

 

[Malcolm1935]

If you care to help I have a few questions that would really help me out by answering.

#1: MODES: I've been learning my modes and I have them down pretty well - as well as scale degrees and their qualities. So if it's a 251 progression should I play 2 Dorian, 5 Mixolydian, 1 Ionian? Or just focus on the major/minor qualities and throw in model stuff for some flair? Any advice on making use of them?

Pet peeve of mine --- modes are modal not tonal. Dorian is an attractive minor sound. Do you want a minor attractive sound? Up comes Mixolyian which has a major blues or Latin sound. Do you really want to switch from an attractive minor sound to a major Latin sound? Each mode has a unique feel (sound). If you are just starting on your modal road pick out a mood then use a modal vamp under it --- for the entire song. This way the modal mood drones on and adds value. Do a Google on modal harmony..., LEAVE MODAL FOR THE QUITAR GUYS FOR AT LEAST A YEAR. TONAL WILL DO EVERYTHING YOU NEED RIGHT NOW.


#2: When reading Chord Sheets for a lot of worship/rock music I feel stuck on the root. Especially when the chords change a lot. Like I don't feel confident in adding in other notes and worry about missing the next chord change. I understand a lot of theory but when in the moment I feel glued to my root notes. Would love any advice...

Praise music is roots to the beat with any runs or walks done between verses or the chorus. Relax and pound your roots. If you must the ole R-5 is enough.


#3: Knowing my fretboard well can sometimes make me feel slower when playing over a chord sheet because I could play a note in a few different places on the neck. Any advice on making decisions quicker? This also applies to walking bass lines. Moving from one chord to the next the thought on where is next feels slower because there are a few things I could do to get to a few different places where the next root is. This is a live in the moment thing I experience.

Pick out your go to lick, mine is R-5-8-5, don't make it,hard at first.

Happy trails

 

[jallenbass]

#2: When reading Chord Sheets for a lot of worship/rock music I feel stuck on the root. Especially when the chords change a lot. Like I don't feel confident in adding in other notes and worry about missing the next chord change. I understand a lot of theory but when in the moment I feel glued to my root notes. Would love any advice...

When there are a lot of quick chord changes roots may be just what the song needs. Sometimes you can play a 3rd or 5th if it will lead you elegantly to the next root but your ears need to tell you that. Work that stuff out in advance if you don't feel comfortable doing it in the moment.

 

[jallenbass]

#3: Knowing my fretboard well can sometimes make me feel slower when playing over a chord sheet because I could play a note in a few different places on the neck. Any advice on making decisions quicker? This also applies to walking bass lines. Moving from one chord to the next the thought on where is next feels slower because there are a few things I could do to get to a few different places where the next root is. This is a live in the moment thing I experience.

Go to the closest one unless you hear that the same note further away would benefit the song. Other musicians tend to appreciate a bass player's steady time rather than creative note choices that mess up the time if that's what's happening.

 

[lfmn16]

I’d suggest getting a good teacher. These are exactly the type of things some good teaches.

 

[AGCurry]

1. Modes are just names for scales and relationships that already exist in the music.

2. Roots are never wrong, especially on the downbeat of a chord change.

3. Which position to play a given note in? Let's take a principle from Simandl and say that you should choose the position which makes the NEXT note easiest.

All of these issues can be addressed by close study of a piece you will be playing, as follows.

For #1, you will determine which series of notes work best for the chord series, and you don't even have to name the mode.

For #2, you can determine what other notes can be played over the duration of a given chord, and most importantly, what the best passing or leading notes could be.

For #3, knowing where you are going ahead of time resolves the position choice.

 

[JTE]

#1. If it is ii V I, there's no, absolutely no utility in thinking of three different modes. Those three chords DEFINE the key of the I chord. And precisely because our job is to define the harmony, that means we need to not only tell everyone what the current chord isia, but how it relates to the one before it and the next one.

So, if you see Dmin7 to G7 to C, that section is the key of C. Dividing it up into three modes obscures that they're all the sameme key. So eschew modes for chord tones. That will tie into your second but. Know your chords, so you can get to that D,F,A,C anywhere on the neck and in any order, not just 1 3 5 b7. And know the same for G B D F. Then you will see the connections between Dmin7 and G7 which will help you get from ii to V.

The chord tones are the skeleton for your bass line, and any other notes can work depending on how you place them in the rhythm and how they lead to the other notes. So for a ii V in C, an F# can be perfect under the Dmin7 on the last beat before the G on the first beat of the G7.

 

[dreamadream99]

A lot to unpack here. Let me give it a shot.

MODES. Any advice on making use of them?

just like scales, modes are a good exercise. For versatility it is good to know how to play within a key starting from any note in it. But when we play melodies or solos, we don’t play modes--just like we don’t play scales. We play notes and intervals, as defined by the key and the chords. I’m going to share a secret that not many people consider: if you were playing along with a C chord, the only notes that will always fit in that chord, no matter what, Are C, E, and G. Now here’s the secret: The notes that you play in between those notes are totally up to you. If you want it to sound safe and feel like homebase--even to the listener--then stick to the notes in the key. But those other notes are still fair game. If you want it to sound challenging and you want to toy with expectations, try some of the notes not in the key. You may or may not like the results, and it may strain the listener, but that is the effect that the modal players are after: to introduce chromatics to their playing.

I feel stuck on the root. Especially when the chords change a lot

The two things that govern note choice In most music, is the key and the chord. Stick with the key if the chords are diatonic to that key. When the chords stray from the key, Stick with the chords.

FRETBOARD. Any advice on making decisions quicker? This also applies to walking bass lines.

The two things that govern optimal position choice, are where you’ve been, and where are you are going. Now me--I’m lazy. I like to stay in one hand position until I have to change. Now walking bass has its own rules. Remember our job is to forecast the next chord change. For me, that means I play linearly from root to root— I don’t like to ping pong around. So if I’m walking from C to F that means I play C, walk, walk, walk, F. For me it’s more about math. I have to start on a C. If I’m in 4/4 I have four beats to get to an F. So I do the math, within the framework of the key and the chords. I can walk linearly from C up to F, or from C down to F. And for all this to work you have to read one full measure ahead. If you don’t know the next chord till you get there, it’s already too late.

 

[flatrat]

Re #2, check out Bass Buzz videos. This may help, a simple way to fix boring bass lines. He's got some other tips as well and they are easy to follow.

 

[BassFalcon]

One thing that may help is writing out basslines for the chord charts. It gives you time to think and approach it different ways purposefully that you don’t get playing in the moment, this will help you see all the opportunities, build vocabulary, and be able to sight read the chord charts better and faster.

 

[jj.833]

writing out basslines for the chord charts

I second. Plus, you'll learn to write notes easily, which is handy for every aspiring bassplayer and helps tremendously to overcome the fear of written notes many bass players experience.
If you are short on ideas how to build the line, I recommend Building Walking Bass by Ed Friedland. Not too much theory and lots of tips in there.

 

[BobDeRosa]

#1.
So, if you see Dmin7 to G7 to C, that section is the key of C. Dividing it up into three modes obscures that they're all the sameme key. So eschew modes for chord tones.

This is true for soloing, but not sure I could ever agree with jumping right to a C while playing the bass line on a Dm-G7-CM progression. The ii-V is there for a reason and generally, the chord-instrument players will be acknowledging it in their comping. The bass player who jumps right to C on the first beat of Dm is not outlining the harmony properly.

 

[Aceman]

If you care to help I have a few questions that would really help me out by answering.

#1: MODES: I've been learning my modes and I have them down pretty well - as well as scale degrees and their qualities. So if it's a 251 progression should I play 2 Dorian, 5 Mixolydian, 1 Ionian? Or just focus on the major/minor qualities and throw in model stuff for some flair? Any advice on making use of them?

#2: When reading Chord Sheets for a lot of worship/rock music I feel stuck on the root. Especially when the chords change a lot. Like I don't feel confident in adding in other notes and worry about missing the next chord change. I understand a lot of theory but when in the moment I feel glued to my root notes. Would love any advice...

#3: Knowing my fretboard well can sometimes make me feel slower when playing over a chord sheet because I could play a note in a few different places on the neck. Any advice on making decisions quicker? This also applies to walking bass lines. Moving from one chord to the next the thought on where is next feels slower because there are a few things I could do to get to a few different places where the next root is. This is a live in the moment thing I experience.

#1 I don't think this is really important unless you are composing or playing modal music period.

#2 Better to do nothing wrong, than try to stand out and be heard being wrong. Start by expanding easy. Root/5ths, walk ups of two notes, then three, etc. Play for the song - not you!

#3. Quicker decisions come from a) Knowing stuff well, b) practicing riffs, licks etc. c) using your ear above all!

It sounds to me like you are talking about improvising. The reality of improvising is that it really isn't an on-the-fly deal as it is portrayed. when you really talk to guys who do improvise well you find they spend a lot off times building up their go-to lick libraries, transcribing things from string to string, key to key, working on combinations, and practicing the "improvs" in a safe space. Oh yeah - and using the ear and not over playing!

 

[Aceman]

Oh yeah - arpeggios!!!! Create harmony with notes!!!

 

[Aceman]

One thing that may help is writing out basslines for the chord charts. It gives you time to think and approach it different ways purposefully that you don’t get playing in the moment, this will help you see all the opportunities, build vocabulary, and be able to sight read the chord charts better and faster.

Great example of things good "improvisers" do.

You rarely encounter new music truly for the first time on the fly. You almost always have time to either
1) Study scores ahead of time or
b) Identify a common progression (thus standard go-to moves can apply)

 

[wysiwyg248]

If you care to help I have a few questions that would really help me out by answering.

#1: MODES: I've been learning my modes and I have them down pretty well - as well as scale degrees and their qualities. So if it's a 251 progression should I play 2 Dorian, 5 Mixolydian, 1 Ionian? Or just focus on the major/minor qualities and throw in model stuff for some flair? Any advice on making use of them?

#2: When reading Chord Sheets for a lot of worship/rock music I feel stuck on the root. Especially when the chords change a lot. Like I don't feel confident in adding in other notes and worry about missing the next chord change. I understand a lot of theory but when in the moment I feel glued to my root notes. Would love any advice...

#3: Knowing my fretboard well can sometimes make me feel slower when playing over a chord sheet because I could play a note in a few different places on the neck. Any advice on making decisions quicker? This also applies to walking bass lines. Moving from one chord to the next the thought on where is next feels slower because there are a few things I could do to get to a few different places where the next root is. This is a live in the moment thing I experience.

My two cents, look at all of this in perspective and don't sweat too much the details.
When practicing modes, scales, etc. etc. just listen to what you are playing, to recognize patterns. This will help you read chord sheets and recognize notes you can add to embelish the piece. In addition, listen to music as much as possible, to recognize those patterns you practice and how the apply to certain type of music/songs.
Remember: You are practicing the same way a soccer player would practice running, shooting, dribling. As you feel confident about these skills, you will apply them more and more to the game.
Looking for a good teacher to put things in context should help significantly as someone mentioned. Keep practicing, and more important, listening.

 

[MrLenny1]

#3 know the neck. FWIW.
Play the cycle of 4th's, in Major, Minor & 7th's scales.
As you start each scale call out the root.
To learn the neck in a linear way start this exercise on the E string every time.
Then repeat this starting on the A string every time.

 

[DanGroove]

I would say focus on the chord tones instead of the full modes. You'll find that with the exception of the 7th degree of the scale where the 5 is flat, you are now just looking at major 1 3 5 or minor 1 b3 5 arpeggios for your scale degrees and you have greatly simplified things. Now that the depth of content you have to track is scaled down significantly you can start using those chord tones when you want to get away from the root and feel more confident. Next start working in your 7th's for the chords and you add a little more data to process but not too much.

You can of course begin using those full modes to pick passing tones on the appropriately modified 2 4 and 6 in time, but I think you'll find it much easier to begin immediate application by focusing on chord tones.

 

[Jack Butler]

This is really the basis of my entire playing style for both guitar and bass, boiled down to a couple paragraphs much more eloquently than I could have done.

A lot to unpack here. Let me give it a shot.
just like scales, modes are a good exercise. For versatility it is good to know how to play within a key starting from any note in it. But when we play melodies or solos, we don’t play modes--just like we don’t play scales. We play notes and intervals, as defined by the key and the chords. I’m going to share a secret that not many people consider: if you were playing along with a C chord, the only notes that will always fit in that chord, no matter what, Are C, E, and G. Now here’s the secret: The notes that you play in between those notes are totally up to you. If you want it to sound safe and feel like homebase--even to the listener--then stick to the notes in the key. But those other notes are still fair game. If you want it to sound challenging and you want to toy with expectations, try some of the notes not in the key. You may or may not like the results, and it may strain the listener, but that is the effect that the modal players are after: to introduce chromatics to their playing.

The two things that govern note choice In most music, is the key and the chord. Stick with the key if the chords are diatonic to that key. When the chords stray from the key, Stick with the chords.

The two things that govern optimal position choice, are where you’ve been, and where are you are going. Now me--I’m lazy. I like to stay in one hand position until I have to change. Now walking bass has its own rules. Remember our job is to forecast the next chord change. For me, that means I play linearly from root to root— I don’t like to ping pong around. So if I’m walking from C to F that means I play C, walk, walk, walk, F. For me it’s more about math. I have to start on a C. If I’m in 4/4 I have four beats to get to an F. So I do the math, within the framework of the key and the chords. I can walk linearly from C up to F, or from C down to F. And for all this to work you have to read one full measure ahead. If you don’t know the next chord till you get there, it’s already too late.

 

[mrcbass]

If you care to help I have a few questions that would really help me out by answering.

#1: MODES: I've been learning my modes and I have them down pretty well - as well as scale degrees and their qualities. So if it's a 251 progression should I play 2 Dorian, 5 Mixolydian, 1 Ionian? Or just focus on the major/minor qualities and throw in model stuff for some flair? Any advice on making use of them?

#2: When reading Chord Sheets for a lot of worship/rock music I feel stuck on the root. Especially when the chords change a lot. Like I don't feel confident in adding in other notes and worry about missing the next chord change. I understand a lot of theory but when in the moment I feel glued to my root notes. Would love any advice...

#3: Knowing my fretboard well can sometimes make me feel slower when playing over a chord sheet because I could play a note in a few different places on the neck. Any advice on making decisions quicker? This also applies to walking bass lines. Moving from one chord to the next the thought on where is next feels slower because there are a few things I could do to get to a few different places where the next root is. This is a live in the moment thing I experience.

My opinion:
1. Deep diving into modes is overrated. I studied them in school and revisited much more recently when involved in a jazz fusion project. "Modes" is essentially just a theory tool and there is far more music played with modes blissfully ignored than where the study/use of them is relevant. For me, use of "modes" have two functions:
A: Make you aware that by starting a major or minor scale on somewhere other than the root can produce interesting textures. Mostly applicable for new ways to approach soling.
B: By naming a mode, and everyone involved is fluent, it can make band communication easier.

Anything other than that becomes a bit of snobbery in my book. Not hating on modes, I just think their importance gets blown out of proportion sometimes.

2. As sucky as I am at soloing, I've ben told that one of my strengths is my ability to create bass lines out of thin air. This is something that just gets easier the more you play. Composing a bass line on the fly is much like improvisational soloing and if I remember my studies correctly, what you are doing is the first building block in learning to improvise. Here's a bit of what I remember from being taught how to improvise - revised for bass line approach. This is not intended for performance time, this is training. Move to the next step as you become comfortable with the previous one:
- First, play the root for every chord.
- Play root five for every chord.
- Play root for first measure, root five for second measure (and continue to alternate).
- Play 1-3-5 arpeggio for every chord
- Play 1-3-5-7 arpeggio for every chord
- As in step 3, alternate the approach each measure (or phrase) with root, root-five, arpeggio.
- Play a pentatonic scale for each chord
- Alternate all of the above.

This will help you develop a bit of intuition on what notes are available for any given chord. You then need to develop a sense of which approach or combination of approaches fits the genre you are playing. And just like with improv (because really, that's what it is), the more you listen to other's lines and try to copy them, the more it becomes natural to determine what you should do. Then you need to just experiment - a lot. PLay along with lots of songs. Try to copy them AND try to do your own thing. Blues is a great genre for a start. Chord patterns are pretty simple and fairly standard and "acceptable" bass lines run the gamut from root only to very busy walks.

3. Sounds like you are relating this to sight reading. That is a skill all on it's own. As you build up your skills from 2, this becomes more natural. You will start developing a vocabulary of how you move from C to G or A to D. This will help to guide you through this.

If not talking about sight reading, then this something you can develop with work on each specific song. I always try to choose which E to play based what my next note is - always looking for the smoothest transition between notes. It's not often, but I've spent hours working out positions on a single phrase to determine where they fit my hands best.