Chromes E String Developed Metallic Ring

[JKos]

Hello,
I'm just curious if this has happened to anyone else. I did some searching but didn't find anything.

I have a bass that's about 9 months old and came with D'Addario Chromes. The E string developed a high pitch metallic ring that overtakes desired harmonic content as the note decays. Sometimes it's there at the beginning of a note, sometimes it develops as the note sustains/decays depending on how you attack the string.

I checked the nut, saddle, neutral twist, a touch more twist, a touch less twist, witness points, moved the saddle a touch out and back, checked for anything else vibrating. Each time I bring the string up to pitch it's better or worse. At one point I thought it was gone; but, what do you know, it came back. That was with a touch less twist.

I don't have another Chromes E string cut the same, so I put a new Dunlop flats E string on and it's completely gone, normal. Put the Chromes back on and there it is. I'll be changing the rest of the strings now.*

All that to say, anyone else have a similar issue arise?

Thanks,
John

* Although, it is fun to purposefully make use of the timbre difference between the Dunlop E and the Chromes A, D, and G.

** My first time using Dunlop Flats. Man, Chromes are so much smoother in feel, glass smooth. The Dunlops are like a ripply lake.

 

[JKos]

Hmm, the Dunlop B, A, D, and G strings are glass smooth. The E string not at all and quite dead compared to the other four strings. Bummer. Submitted a support request to Dunlop.

 

[JKos]

A couple of observations.

Setup wise, the change from Chromes to Dunlop flats had zero impact on the relief. No relief or string height adjustments were necessary. Some intonation adjustment is needed but it's pretty darn close.

I am quite surprised by the similarity in timbre and playing of the (new) Dunlop flats versus (9-month old) Chromes. I thought the Dunlops would be noticeably different, but nope.

Finding the dead thump of the rough Dunlop E string not useful compared to the Chromes-like other strings, I put the Chromes E string back on. It fits right in with the Dunlop flats. Obviously this may change as the Dunlops settle in.

After a bit more experimentation, I found that a quarter turn of "unwinding" (more than I tried before) the Chromes E string seems to have almost eliminated the high pitched zing with no negative impact. It still lives at a couple fret positions (~5-8) ugh.

Edit: Went to a half turn of untwist. Now it's gone. I can't hear any negative impact.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

You said it "developed". You mean some time after installation, right?

I don't know if this will apply to you:
I used to spin the first couple of turns onto the peg by hand. I thought that if the ball end were free to rotate no twist would build up. But no, that wasn't right. Some twist gets built up there at the peg.

I won't be doing that again, but I have a theory about it. I think that that twist can gradually creep out (trying to unwind itself) away from the post, toward the nut, and over the nut, and after that cause an audible problem.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

One more little theory:
Even if the string is wound patiently "correctly", from the beginning, the "outside" of the winding must travel farther than the "inside", and so a stress is built up and its probably pretty strong.

In order to relieve this stress, the string will probably rotate itself (giving the compressed part a chance to be the stretched part).

[EDIT: Ah hah! This is why a neatly coiled up garden hose, when pulled back out, acts all twisted up; it twisted itself to relieve that tension as it was being coiled.]

If that is the case, is it possible that one direction of rotation might be better for the string (and less likely to creep out as I wrote above) than the other direction?

Then the ideal might be to induce it to choose the preferred direction. But it would take a string construction expert to answer which way.

**
Corollary: Winding a lot of turns on the post to get the take-off point down close to the headstock (as recommended for the typical Fender A string for example) can't be ideal in light of the above; posts should be shorter and the slot cut deeper or hole placed lower.

Another corollary: Ideally, as the string is being wound onto the post, it should be held by the ball at the far end, and that ball should be allowed to rotate. Could do that by feel, or feed a (cotton, etc) string through the ball and hold that string.

I've never done any of the above. I will next time.

 

[JKos]

Interesting observation. While setting the intonation using my favorite tuning app, TunerTime, which shows not only the root but also the second and fourth harmonics, the Dunlop flat's harmonics are much closer to in tune than I've noticed on any other strings.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Yes, I think I heard about TunerTime from you. You mention it a lot. But that's ok because it's great, thanks.

I have one of those zings at the third fret of one of mine, maybe because I pinched it there when winding on.

**
I have two bridges that let the ball end be fit into a slot in the bridge after the winding is done.
If the ball is already in the bridge, the two break angles interfere during the winding if the ball is pulled (as I suggested in my previous post), of course. The alternative is to pinch the string onto the post during winding, right there at the post (not several inches down the string as I've usually done without thinking about it). I guess that's what I'll do with those next time.

For the solutions to this and to neck dive, see Steinberger et al.

 

[Rabidhamster]

Hmm maybe I'll look into this tuner time app. I had the TC polytune app but it was worse than useless for me

 

[JKos]

To complete the story... Dunlop replaced the set of strings. Thank you, Dunlop! The new E string is definitely different than the first one. Smooth and not dead.

However, after playing them for a while, the timbre of the E string doesn't match the others. It's not as rich. Finger style it's not all that noticeable. But put a pick to metal and the difference is quite noticeable. Argh. Maybe I'll put the Chromes E back on.

 

[JKos]

I've put the Chromes E string back on with a half turn of untwist. Now the timbre of all four strings match.

So, I'm 0 for 2 on Dunlop E strings. Argh. Is it normal for E to not match the other strings?