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CITES - What every bass player should know

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by Turnaround, Apr 24, 2014.


  1. punkjazzben

    punkjazzben

    Jun 26, 2008
    Australia
    potentially useless perspective here, but let's give it a try:

    I haven't been active on TB for a couple of years and just logged on tonight. by chance I came across the Ibanez 2018 speculation thread and someone mentioned how CITES would make things interesting. having had no contact with the forum at all for a long time, I had no idea what that was about or that this rosewood decision had been made. I'm now caught up with the details and yes, hooley dooley, it's massive.

    I'm an active musician and read plenty of music publications, but somehow missed this entire issue -- meanwhile it's an ongoing topic on TB. I'm interested to know if anyone thinks broader public/media coverage might help smooth out processes along the way, or whether steps are being taken in this direction from a grassroots and/or corporate lobbying position.
     
  2. Chrisk-K

    Chrisk-K

    Jan 20, 2010
    Maryland, USA
    What would happen if I ordered a bass with a rosewood fretboard from Japan? Would it be confiscated or returned to the seller?
     
  3. Chrisk-K

    Chrisk-K

    Jan 20, 2010
    Maryland, USA
    Can the CITES ban sir Paul from playing his Hofner at a concert in the US?
     
  4. kumimajava

    kumimajava

    May 19, 2010
    Tokyo, Japan
    Very much depends on whether the bass would have CITES papers or not. my understanding is that most Japanese manufacturers/builders are using CITES-certified wood for new-build instruments so those should be ok. Also, some Japanese shops will acquire CITES papers for second-hand instruments, provided that they're valuable enough.

    In the absence of papers - I'm not familiar with the US regulations, but my guess is that more likely confiscated than returned (someone more knowledgeable - please correct me if i'm wrong).

    Unless he's planning to sell it, I think he should be ok :) If it's an instrument that he already owns (& it contains less than 10kg CITES woods), and he's travelling with it just to play & not sell, there should be no problem...
     
    clbass likes this.
  5. ispunk

    ispunk Supporting Member

    Aug 26, 2010
    I'm pretty sure Paul can afford to pay someone to get all of his instruments CITES certified before he tours again
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
    ajkula66 likes this.
  6. ranat

    ranat

    Dec 22, 2010
    LA California
    Hi anyone knows if the Japanese TRB 6ii rosewood is affected by CITES rule? And if its hand carried from usa to another country is it ok? It's not new btw.
     
  7. kumimajava

    kumimajava

    May 19, 2010
    Tokyo, Japan
    All rosewood is affected by CITES, and unless you already have papers for it, all the usual hassles described in this thread apply.
     
  8. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Happy Cynic

    Mar 20, 2011
    Spokane, Washington
    Endorsing Artist: Turnstyle Switch
    Hand-carrying any type of CITES wood is not going to help you, unless it's small enough to hide in your baggage and nobody searches it. (Which I don't recommend doing, by the way.)
     
  9. ranat

    ranat

    Dec 22, 2010
    LA California
    Is Wenge neck and board included in CiTES? Coz 2 years ago It's safely hand carried through US to the South East Asia.
     
  10. s_wood

    s_wood Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2003
    Delaware (USA)
    Wenge is not covered by CITES.

    Hand-carrying a bass won’t affect whether or not CITES is enforced.

    CITES allows traveling with an instrument for performance or personal purposes that contains less than 10kg of a protected wood other than Brazilian rosewood. Any kind of cross-border movement of Brazilian rosewood is mostly prohibited. Also, CITES does not cover instruments that use a protected wood other than Brazilian rosewood that was made before January 2, 2017.

    The problem is that without a CITES instrument passport or some other official document you will be relying on the ability of a particular customs inspector to determine the difference between Brazilian rosewood and the other species. That’s extremely risky, because if the customs inspector you are dealing with decides that your instrument contains Brazilian rosewood it may well be confiscated right then and there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
    Sadowsky likes this.
  11. Burwabit

    Burwabit Likes guitars that tune good and firm feelin women Supporting Member

    Apr 4, 2011
    Lubbock, TX
    eBay just blocked me from listing an instrument with international shipping (Global Shipping Program) due to certain woods in the description... either mahogany, ebony, or maple. Is that a new thing?
     
  12. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Happy Cynic

    Mar 20, 2011
    Spokane, Washington
    Endorsing Artist: Turnstyle Switch
    I haven't heard of that, but that's a big improvement from other stories I heard about eBay's Global Shipping Program. Previously, they would not tell you there's a problem, you would just ship the bass... and then eBay would inform both parties that the transaction was cancelled. You would get to keep the money the buyer paid, the buyer's money would be reimbursed to him, and the bass would then be the property of eBay's Global Shipping Program, and presumably whoever worked there who wanted that bass.
     
    gebass6 and gln1955 like this.
  13. ajkula66

    ajkula66

    Sep 23, 2016
    NEPA
    I'm reasonably certain that one could opt out of their Global Shipping problem, which would (theoretically speaking, no first-hand experience at the present time) enable them to re-list the item...
     
  14. Burwabit

    Burwabit Likes guitars that tune good and firm feelin women Supporting Member

    Apr 4, 2011
    Lubbock, TX
    Yes I unchecked the box and listed without it.
     
  15. Jeff Scott

    Jeff Scott Rickenbacker guru.......... Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2006
    Better that than having the instrument confiscated by ebay and them telling you to have a nice day.......................
     
  16. s_wood

    s_wood Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2003
    Delaware (USA)
    BUT... if eBay sees trouble with the international shipment of instruments containing rosewood shouldn't we, too?
     
    Burwabit likes this.
  17. gln1955

    gln1955 Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Ohio, USA
    Yes. If you ship on your own and it gets inspected and confiscated, you are SOL. Or so, I believe. I may be wrong.
     
  18. Red Planet

    Red Planet

    May 29, 2005
    Talking Rock GA
    OEM Manufacturing Supplier
    Soon we'll be smuggling contraban basses .
     
  19. steve4765630

    steve4765630

    Feb 27, 2006
    This whole thing is a nightmare. I'm not saying that conservation isn't a good thing, but doing things like confiscating instruments that have been built legally is just insane. It's not like we're smuggling cocaine or endangered albino muskrats. I mean, come on, it's wood. We've built things out of wood for thousands of years and now all of a sudden they have to put a damper on the least wasteful and most conservation friendly industry (instrument making) under fire?
     
  20. bassexplorer

    bassexplorer

    Sep 29, 2008
    Hi Chris. From what I could understand from one of my "usual supplier" (bought a dozen over 15 years), sellers in JP have to issue a certificate to be shipped with the instrument. Supposedly this "service" is paid for, but since prices are crazy high now in JP, I suppose it is included. More about this when I buy my next intrument over there. CITIES being an international agreement, it should be accepted world wide.

    Just checked an offer I d made. The seller refused selling overseas (although the sale is international), alleging the guitar "contains used rosewood". Or, the guy doesnt want to bother with the paperwork, or it is impossible to export. Duno, it is a seller i ve never dealt with before. But the info I had is that it would be possible. Gonna ask directly to the one I know.

    Ok, just found back a mail i had with my guy overvthere some in 2017, march. He says the paperwork is terrible and that many small sellers are giving up because they cant cope with that. I suppose this means that large sellers do have the capacity. But he also said 2 certificates are needed : one to exit Japan, one to enter the country it is shipped to. Take more than a month for japan he said.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018