I've noticed that too. I ordered an Alien Deluxe 6 a bit ago that will ship once the CITES process is done. I'm wondering if it will be the rosewood or wenge now. Although as far as I know the bridge is still made of rosewood.
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CITES - What every bass player should know
- Thread starter Turnaround
- Start date
I've noticed that too. I ordered an Alien Deluxe 6 a bit ago that will ship once the CITES process is done. I'm wondering if it will be the rosewood or wenge now. Although as far as I know the bridge is still made of rosewood.
The paperwork, cost and effort to ship Rosewood worldwide isn't economical, especially on a lower priced product ranges. Warwick refered to this in one of the interviews during Guitcon at Warwick the week before last. I predict more builders will move away from Rosewood, just like Fender have on the American Pro and Mex Standard. Rosewood will become premium and premium isn't compatible will cheaper instruments. Sucks because I love Rosewood.
Yet, most rosewoods aren't really premium woods.
You’re missing the point or our wires are crossed. I know RW is not premium. But.....it will become so!
Using Warwick as an example, if they now ship a bass with bulk standard RW to the US from Germany, they need an extra few weeks to get the paperwork sorted and that costs money! That cost money and goes onto the cost of the bass. Hence it will cost more to the buyer! If something costs more in comparison to say Maple, then it’s by definition a premium cost.
Philip McKnight (a YouTuber) was at GuitCon at Warwick recently and bought a Framus Guitar with RW. He couldn’t take it home with him to the US because they have to sort the paperwork. 2-3 weeks and that’s pushing it though too.
It’s easy to see why manufacturers are moving to alternatives like Pau Fero. More will follows .
What I want to know is, how does that apply in practise? If I show up to the border with my Florida rosewood or Madagascar rosewood-boarded bass how will I be greeted? It seems I will still need a "passport" for any bass that has wood which could be mistaken for Brazilian rosewood. How does Sadowsky deal with this when shipping non-Brazilian rosewood - or even morado - basses?
Same applies with the paperwork and cost to export over borders.
My observations are based on what Hans Peter Wilfer (owner of Warwick) said at the recent GuitCon about the CITES issue.
Yeah. I'm just wondering if they'll minimize their use of bubinga as well, it's practically a signature wood for Warwick basses.
My point, exactly. This is how "they" are making garden variety EIR into an artificially "premium" wood.
Hi,
I posted pics of two of them in my previous cites post. both have rosewood necks and mahogany (I think), one has cocobolo and bubinga. there may be other woods
also the old Yamaha SB55 may have MOP inlays on the fretboard. Not at all sure what the scratchplate is.
Short answer appears to be: "yes"
Are Rosewoods (and Bubinga) really banned by CITES? | The Wood Database
I wonder what this'll do to the secondary market prices for the affected instruments. On one hand, we'll now have fewer rosewood/bubinga instruments being made (hence a "scarcity premium"), but I expect that many potential buyers will think about the difficulty with potential (international) re-sale.
IIRC Ishibashi (from Japan) are already winding down their international sales of rosewood instruments, and I'm equally aware that most of the goodies on here or BassChat in the UK are a no-go for me
I have a luthier friend who bought Brazilian RW and other CITES species from estate sales, and also from vendors who subsequently went out of business.
The standards for documentation are very strict. Because the original method of importation for those pieces is undocumented, they can never be certified.
Larger factories were blindsided by CITES in the same way.
Part of the problem, is that the playing field keeps changing. Bubinga was legal, now it's not. Will Wenge be next?
Thanks Steve.
That's so sad. I'm just a minnow, minuscule, but I'll accept part of the blame for desiring rosewood etc. the way I have. And I do apologize. Doubtless, I got out at the right time, and I can't imagine I'll be wanting to test my luck again, in the near future.
There must be a way though, for the innocent trafficking of old wood strictly for the production of music, and the protection of this industry. It is, after all, an essential service
So, I say stick to your guns. Be resourceful and do the homework. Compromises may need to be made. And a concerted effort by all of us to bring these unjust discrepancies into a better light. No one should suffer unnecessary hardship, especially when the consequences could be so dire. This is a calling, music production is a civilized profession 
My last few guitars from Japan, pre CITES, took all of five days to arrive at my doorstep, dressed in exotic ebony and rosewood boards
I just hope everyone can find their way somehow through the rocks and shoals of CiTES. Patience, it seems, will be a distinct virtue; not only because things will most likely get easier eventually as time passes and everybody gets better used to the new norms and the more viable alternatives - worth waiting for, if possible; but because the new regulatory processes themselves, with government overseeing etc., have become a necessary evil. For this, there's no one to blame but ourselves. Finger-pointing is pointless 
It would be lovely, and eminently wise, if, somehow, we could all work together to help make better sense of this current nightmare. Looking forward to better times
Best of luck to all y'all. Rock 'n' roll on…
My understanding of the situation at the moment, is that CITES will only get more restrictive over time. And as others have already pointed out, exemptions for the international sale and trade of old instruments are unlikely because of the difficulties in identifying and registering the age and provenance of vintage instruments, never mind more recent ones.
But, and it's a BIG but:
The current situation seems to be that the barriers are all about trade. Manufacturers and large retailers are going through hell right now, large or small.
On the other hand, personal instruments travelling for leisure or performance seem to be OK, with things actually getting a little easier as customs agents are getting used to the new regulatory climate.
I haven't heard any stories of private individuals having instruments confiscated during travel.
I probably wouldn't have the guts to travel with an irreplaceable vintage piece, but I would have no trouble boarding a plane with my Dingwall or my Squier tomorrow. Take identifiable, dated pictures of your stuff before you leave, and keep them with you during the trip.
Produce them if necessary on the way back home to prove that you weren't shopping overseas, and you should be good.
After all, guys like Joe Bonamassa are still touring the globe with truckloads of uncertifiable, pre-CITES instruments...
But, and it's a BIG but:
The current situation seems to be that the barriers are all about trade. Manufacturers and large retailers are going through hell right now, large or small.
On the other hand, personal instruments travelling for leisure or performance seem to be OK, with things actually getting a little easier as customs agents are getting used to the new regulatory climate.
I haven't heard any stories of private individuals having instruments confiscated during travel.
I probably wouldn't have the guts to travel with an irreplaceable vintage piece, but I would have no trouble boarding a plane with my Dingwall or my Squier tomorrow. Take identifiable, dated pictures of your stuff before you leave, and keep them with you during the trip.
Produce them if necessary on the way back home to prove that you weren't shopping overseas, and you should be good.
After all, guys like Joe Bonamassa are still touring the globe with truckloads of uncertifiable, pre-CITES instruments...
Sadowsky, thanks for your clear and logical reply. Importation of new instruments to Spain has become incredibly difficult. I have had to give up importing anything now from the USA because of incredibly Dickensian systems that just hammer us with import taxes, Customs duty at 21%. Customs handling charge is a sliding scale, but with 21% Tax on the Handling Charge. So StewMac is a memory. Then there is CTIS, well that just blocks me from buying a new bass from the US or anywhere else outside Europe. Basically no one is qualified to identify timber and the exporting countries make mistakes with paperwork and if they don't the Madrid clearing depot will. I bought a used Fender neck for a P bass in january. It took 10 days to go all around the US, but it was in Madrid 2 months while we tried to sort out paperwork. And because the neck had a new fret board customs insisted in needed a certificate regardless how I bought it! As a 72 year old player bass player hobbyist I buy around 2 or 3 necks a year, but there is far less pleasure in it now. Thank you guys!
The Fish and Wildlife Service in the USA is the agency responsible for implementing the CITES restrictions, so it is worth looking at what they have to say about it. Below I am quoting from FWS with all the extraneous stuff removed (like references to seeds live animals etc., leaving just the stuff we need be concerned about). Note too that any bolded text is my own emphasis, not found in the original document, and I have substituted the word "instrument" where the original document says "specimen". And note that ALL Rosewood and most Bubinga species are listed in CITES Appendix II, and that Brazilian Rosewood in particular is listed in CITES Appendix I which is even more restrictive. So this is the modified text from FWS:
The United States recognizes the CITES personal and household effects exemption (Invalid Link Removed) for CITES Appendix II and Appendix III species. Provided the instrument is for personal use and is included with your accompanying baggage, or the instrument is part of a shipment of your household effects when moving your residence to and from the United States, your activity may fall under the CITES personal effects exemption, outlined in our regulations at 50 CFR 23.15, which waives the requirements for a CITES permit.
Review the personal and household effects regulation carefully to determine whether you meet the stated criteria. If yes, check with the foreign Invalid Link Removed to be sure they will recognize this exemption. If they do not recognize this exemption, permit requirements apply. If you meet the criteria and the foreign country also recognizes the personal and household effects exemption, print a copy of our regulation and keep it with the item for reference purposes so that you may demonstrate that you meet these criteria, if asked. We recommend keeping documentation about the source and history of the item with the item.
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