Class D amp at full volume?

[aborgman]

How can you fry a SS amp by running it wide open?

You generally can't with modern amplifiers.

You can fry them by feeding them a way too hot input signal.

 

[aborgman]

I What I was trying to ascertain was, given there is plenty of power handling in the cabs,

Make sure you aren't just looking at thermal power handling when determining that there is plenty of power handling in the cabs... chances are, your mechanical power handling is much lower than the xxx watts rating of the cabinets.

 

[lz4005]

... if an amp manufacturer wanted to make their amp look more powerful they could use an inverse log ( look how loud it goes and it's only at 5/10... but youre near flat out at 5 you just don't know it. )

There are definitely manufacturers that do that.
It's also one of the reasons it's difficult to accurately compare amps. I did a mini shootout once of four or five amps in the 200 to 500w range, with the same bass and cab. Setting all the volume and gain knobs to the same positions the spl produced didn't correlate to the claimed wattage at all. There was a 200w that sounded twice as loud as a 300, and a 500 that was in between the two.

I do know that psychologically, a lot of people are averse to turning the burners on their stoves to full blast or actually "flooring" their car accelerator.

Those people don't cook or drive very well. Or they have a much bigger engine than I do.

I pranked a guy once by resetting the level knobs on the shafts of his amp.
The pointers said everything was where they were supposed to be, but the pots were actually turned all the way down. It took him a while to even bother to try turning any knobs.
Ya just can't trust that the knobs tell you anything useful.

That's genius. There's a harmonica player I used to work with I would have loved to do that to.

 

[Kukulkan61]

Who would want to do that anyway??

 

[agedhorse]

Just the kind of information overload I was trying to avoid Definitely don't want to go down the route of makes and models for a general equipment information query as once you start down that road it has literally no end... other that I play with various bands, various lineups consisting of various instruments, and various genres. See what I mean? Too easy to get bogged down in pointless detail. The general enquiry had all the relevant information, and in fact yielded the response that there is nothing inherently wrong with using all the available power in a Class D head (with all the usual caveats).

It's not pointless, in fact there are amps and speakers that might suffer from this kind of operation and other amps and speakers that would be fine. Without knowing the specifics might give you general information that is wrong for your example.

If weight is the concern, 4 to 6 x the power of what you have now might weigh about ten pounds or less. You don't look so frail

Except that this might result in an entirely different thread regarding speaker power handling, damage and power limitations.

Make sure you aren't just looking at thermal power handling when determining that there is plenty of power handling in the cabs... chances are, your mechanical power handling is much lower than the xxx watts rating of the cabinets.

Again, this is where generalities and specifics can diverge greatly.

 

[Drgonzonm]

..... Without knowing the specifics might give you general information that is wrong for your example.....
Again, this is where generalities and specifics can diverge greatly.

@agedhorse, you hit it on the head, specifics need to provided, or else the generalities can be misleading.
The other option, is to preface responses, "this is a general response, do to lack of data"

 

[Drgonzonm]

This is what I've understood to be true as well. Never had an amp blow up because I pushed it too loud or left it on too long.

I have a sixty's era, fender that fries resistors in the power tube section. It loves to cook the 470 ohm 1w resistors.

 

[DavC]

over my last 4+ decades of twiddling knobs ...

my assumptions ; straight power amps , i always ran at full volume ... because whatever was being fed into them had its' own preamp input gain & master output gain , like a mixer ...

our guitar/bass/keyboard amps ... seem to have just 2 out of the above , 3 volume controls ... so i've never run my instrument amps Master volume at 'full' ... the input gain maximizes that level for the input level of whatever instrument ... and the amps Master Volume was for adjust the whole volume to ' taste' for whatever situation ...

i also used the 70-80% idea , but it was usually for my keyboard volume knob or maybe rack effects ... mostly to get the most signal to noise level without distortion ( in the older analog days ) .. ??

i agree that being condescending is unnecessary ... most of us are musicians/artists , not electrical engineers !!!??!

 

[BadExample]

Except that this might result in an entirely different thread regarding speaker power handling, damage and power limitations.

Agreed, but we really need a catch all thread, perhaps stickied, maybe just combine common words for the title: Does Class D Burn Metal Lead SS Monster 1/4" DIY Mixed Fake Tube Decibels Heavy Clipped Marketing Hz THD Ratio Schlep Tone Fingers Pedals Strings Scooped Flat Round Carrots Loud Heft Dimed Outdoors? (A horse) of course, the first answer would be a link to the ohm FAQ.

--That Guy

 

[Deleted member 165050]

It's not pointless, in fact there are amps and speakers that might suffer from this kind of operation and other amps and speakers that would be fine.

That's the kind of general knowledge I was trying to elicit - so if I know there is some variation from amp to amp my best option would be to contact my amp manufacturer with the specific question. Although my original question did assume adequate power handling in whatever cabs were in use... it's the general principle of running a Class D head hard that I was trying to get to. Obviously with insufficient power handling in the speakers, or an impedance mismatch, or too hot an input signal, or very boosted eq or whatever there are always specific circumstances that would yield a different answer.

 

[Son of Wobble]

I do know that psychologically, a lot of people are averse to turning the burners on their stoves to full blast or actually "flooring" their car accelerator.

I'm with you: why just let Fido out back to pee when you can unleash the hounds of war?

 

[Son of Wobble]

I've always wanted to play Polka... I had an Ampeg guitar amp years ago that had an accordion input.

If you are gonna wear lederhosen and use a 410 cab then u need to raise the cabinet off the floor, because using it in "ankle blaster mode" while standing in front of it will cut your level 2 db.
This is kind of arcane stuff, but you are in luck as I am a lederhosen manufacturer, and as I don't want to talk over your head, let me simplify it into laymen's terms: lederhosen leather is very sound absorbent, and will literally "swallow" the bass sound particles.

tldr - 810 cab ftw (or faux lederhosen leather)

 

[monkeyfinger]

I thought the 'volume controls' on power amps are typically designed to match the output level of the source signal to the level required to drive the power amp to maximum output. That is why the term 'input pad' is used. If you have a source signal that is hotter than the amp requires for max output, then you use the volume controls to pad down the input. That way you have the greatest flexibility in controlling the amount of gain at the source.

 

[BobbyT]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If you need to turn up the volume on your amp to 100 percent, you need a bigger amp.

 

[BadExample]

That's the kind of general knowledge I was trying to elicit - so if I know there is some variation from amp to amp my best option would be to contact my amp manufacturer with the specific question. Although my original question did assume adequate power handling in whatever cabs were in use... it's the general principle of running a Class D head hard that I was trying to get to. Obviously with insufficient power handling in the speakers, or an impedance mismatch, or too hot an input signal, or very boosted eq or whatever there are always specific circumstances that would yield a different answer.

I think the class of amp is not applicable.

I want to learn punk-polka.

I could be wrong about either statement.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

I want to learn punk-polka.

 

[mesaplayer83]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. If you need to turn up the volume on your amp to 100 percent, you need a bigger amp.

Usually, it means you need more speakers, IMO/IME...

 

[micgtr71]

One thing that I learned from reading this thread was that I do not know enough about class, wattage, and what they do. I do know that 300 tube watts into 8 10s is louder than 500 ss watts into the same 10s but I'm not really sure why. Research time. I do know that my 22 watt deluxe is ear splitting above 4 in my home...

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Hi ficelles

Check: Gain = full; ultralow boost = on, Bass = full; Lowmids = full; Highmids = full; high = full; Mastervolume = full

Sound = (hypothetically ) Does that hurt my amp? I don' t know!!!
***SNIP***

Be aware that if you dime your bass EQ you may very well damage your speakers. At the very least you will suck huge amounts of the power out of the amp into trying to amplify the 30Hz and lower frequencies. This often causes speakers to exceed their XMAX ratings and can blow speakers even though you may be operating them below their rated power handling. It also makes your music sound like mud and can drive the amp into clipping.

Yes, I did max it when I first started playing back in 1966, but I know better now.

 

[DirkP]

All class-d amps I know of have an inbuilt limiter that sets in as soon as a certain volume is reached. IIRC the Peavey amps long before class-d amps even existed already had an inbuilt limiter. Some people liked that. It might have saved Peavey a lot of money for repairs. The class-d manufacturers have the same good reason for doing this.

So you can decide if you want your signal to be squeezed by a cheap limiter or if you prefer a decent compressor to do the job...
There is no relation between the range of the volume knob and the power of the amp. Many amps are already at their limit if you set the volume poti to 12. I have never ever set the volume on my Markbass to more than 9 or 10. And get complains that I'm too loud.
It is impressive if you just turn the volume knob a bit to the right and the floor shakes. But that is marketing.