Double Bass Classical era concerto for bass tuned in 4ths?

[Brilee]

The main "Classical era" concertos are for Viennese tuning and are so awkward. Are there any from that era for a bass tuned in 4ths? The Italian stuff that came later is so much more idiomatic and fun to play.

 

[Mark_T]

 

[Mark_T]

Oh, I guess that was probably also written for Viennese tuning...

 

[the_Ryan]

The original (lost) concerto was probably written for Viennese tuning, but from what I've heard Sam say he wanted his "re-creation" to be native to fourths tuning.

 

[koricancowboy]

Pichl 1 is one to look at. Not sure if orchestral tuning but feels very idiomatic.

 

[koricancowboy]

https://imslp.org/wiki/Double_Bass_Concerto_No.1_in_D_major_(Pichl%2C_Vaclav)

 

[benharrisfan]

Dragonetti's compositions, Capuzzi, Cimador, Alfonso Savi (1809), Keyper's concertos. Pichl is originally for Viennese tuning.

 

[Brilee]

I like that Cimador. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Ric Vice]

Aye there's the rub. Practically every well know concerto from the " classical period" is originally in Viennese tuning that was then "converted" to be played on
a bass tuned 4ths. Whole sections of the original Vanhall Concerto were edited to accommodate the new instrument. Some sections were removed entirely. The Fuch's Sonata is very idiomatic to the bass, but it's not a concerto.

 

[Brilee]

Funny you mentioned "not a concerto". I have had successful audition experiences playing sonata movements rather than a concerto, where the solo requirement was "two contrasting movements" or some such. I just don't like Vanhal, Hoffmeister, Sperger, or Dittersdorf much, for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. They come out sounding a tad vapid compared to some of the concerti written for EADG afterwards. I really like Martín, Jacob, Goss, and Lancen, among others.

 

[Co.]

Dragonetti's compositions, Capuzzi, Cimador, Alfonso Savi (1809), Keyper's concertos. Pichl is originally for Viennese tuning.

I thought, the Capuzzi (original in D) might have been written for viennese tuning, originally. I am pretty sure, I read somewhere, but can remember exactly.

 

[Brilee]

Generally the Italians were tuned in 4ths and there isn't all the constant repetition of triad arpeggios to suggest that Capuzzi was for Viennese tuning. It works great with 4ths, regardless.

 

[Sean Riddle]

These are actual concerti Dragonetti wrote.

Double Bass Concerto in G major, Op.1 (Dragonetti, Domenico) - IMSLP

imslp.org

Double Bass Concerto No.6 in D major (Dragonetti, Domenico) - IMSLP

imslp.org

 

[neilG]

Yeah, there are a bunch. Every piece deserves to be heard at least once, I suppose.

 

[Co.]

Generally the Italians were tuned in 4ths and there isn't all the constant repetition of triad arpeggios to suggest that Capuzzi was for Viennese tuning. It works great with 4ths, regardless.

This articles states, that it might be likely, to be written for Viennese tuning originally: https://www.greatbassviol.com/pubs/capuzzi.pdf
I didn't do the research to judge the credibility of the source, but it seems reasonable to me.
The Capuzzi concerto might still not be as awkward and idiomatic as the more virtuosic concertos of that era, because it seems to have been write for an amateur violone player.

 

[the_Ryan]

Funny you mentioned "not a concerto". I have had successful audition experiences playing sonata movements rather than a concerto, where the solo requirement was "two contrasting movements" or some such. I just don't like Vanhal, Hoffmeister, Sperger, or Dittersdorf much, for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. They come out sounding a tad vapid compared to some of the concerti written for EADG afterwards. I really like Martín, Jacob, Goss, and Lancen, among others.

I love the second movement of Vanhal (and at pitch it works okay, although I prefer playing a lot of it down the octave), but because orchestras only require one concerto out of Bottesini, Dittersdorf, Koussevitzky, and Vanhal stateside I pretty much always go with Bottesini for auditions. It's probably not the best decision since it is the hardest out of the aforementioned options, but there's so much musically that can be wrung from it that I feel like that trade-off is worth it.

I know SF had the first movement of the Martín listed as an option for their recent-ish audition and Philly had Tubin as an option, and if I'd taken those auditions I would have seriously considered those pieces.