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Clean Blend as a polarizing issue

#41
The DAM Ezekiel bass fuzz pedal has a blend control, but it doesn't seem to mess with the fuzz's tone ie the high end "hoard of bees" syndrome. But it's more of a very heavy overdrive pedal than it is a Fuzz pedal.
Personally, I like my Overdrive pedals to be able to dial the grit control down to a clean boost. This reassures me that the native circuit isn't messing with my tone to start with. This means that my tone is going through the op-amp and diodes and being clipped Unfortunately, many overdrives as soon as they kick in, seem to change the tonality or character of one's bass. Then they seem to require a clean blend to dial it back. This then introduces two different tones together and I find that I struggle to find a working blend. The whole point of an overdrive is to simulate an "overdriven" valve amp, which implies that it should add grit to the existing bass character...not over write it.
With fuzz boxes, I want something completely different. Something strong and aggressive with lots of native bottom end. The character of the fuzz is very dominant and effectively replacing my bass tone. So I am choosing a fuzz with has a sound I like and generally, these don't blend well together. So in my mind I want a fuzz to behave completely different to an overdrive. Unfortunately, many overdrives are just tame fuzz boxes and totally change your bass.
 
#42
GMC said:
Personally, I like my Overdrive pedals to be able to dial the grit control down to a clean boost. This reassures me that the native circuit isn't messing with my tone to start with. This means that my tone is going through the op-amp and diodes and being clipped Unfortunately, many overdrives as soon as they kick in, seem to change the tonality or character of one's bass. Then they seem to require a clean blend to dial it back. This then introduces two different tones together and I find that I struggle to find a working blend. The whole point of an overdrive is to simulate an "overdriven" valve amp, which implies that it should add grit to the existing bass character...not over write it.
Click to expand...

Tube amps cover a wide range of tonal colors, and overdrives have done the same. The SansAmp Bass Driver does an excellent job of emulating an overdriven SVT with Ultra Lo switch engaged. That was a popular SVT tone, and for decades the BDDI has been extremely popular -- not to mention a staple of professional recording studios.

It's completely reasonable to desire the least coloration possible from an overdrive device*, but just as reasonable to want some sizzle with the fizzle (so to speak). Neither way is right or wrong per se.

*No such thing as completely flat OD, so it's a matter of picking subtle or overt coloration. To get back on topic, a clean blend mitigates coloration as well as distortion. I still use a BDDI from time to time, and when I do, I roll blend back to restore some mids. I'll also boost the Presence control -- the result is gritty top end, and that's how I like to roll. Others prefer gentle sag from a Fairfield Barbershop, and that's cool too.
 
#43
I'm using a Badger Schism with an Ashdown Hyperdrive in one channel and a Wren & Cuff Tall Font Russian in the other. I leave the third channel (clean) on all the time at about 30%. Even though the Hyperdrive has a blend, I don't use it since I want it's full effect into the Schism (but I do, of course use the variable eq to dial in the kind of selectable mid-range grind it does so very well). That channel is set to about 50% while the TFR (green muff) channel is set to about 70% of full on. The TFR has so much lowend it would be a shame to blend a clean signal over it, even for articulated purposes (I like the green muff vroom-vroom without articulation).

I only really use the third channel of the Schism to ensure some of my clean signal hits the B3K I have set after it, which I use to flavor both dirt pedals. And yeah, it took a bit of dialing and trial and error to keep the signal form going all oil-and-water or bees-over-clean, etc. But I think I've got it sounding thick and righteous now.

I switch each channel on and off depending on whether or not I want mid-range grind or mid-scooped vroom. (or both when I want to wreck the place with bass distortion mayhem).

So yeah, I like clean blending with a separate device more then using the dirt pedal itself for blending.
Now if I was only using the Hyperdrive alone (which I'm not) then yeah, I would be using it's built in blend rather liberally.

And by the way, it has a very well designed blend but it does take some time and patience to dial in properly, as do many. I agree too that not every (read: most I've tried) dirt pedal comes with a useful blend. The TAFM comes to my mind too as another dirt effect I've tried with a well thought out blend knob.
 
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#44
Sorry to Zombie this thread, but I was wondering if any of you in the "no clean blends ever" camp have any suggestions for where to look, specifically for fuzz.

I've had the EHX Bass Big Muff Pi & the Deluxe version, a GGG Rams head muff clone, a '71 supercollider, and finally a SUF civil war. The civil war has finally the sound I want, and I'm looking for something higher gain to compliment it and the wooly mammoth clone on my board.
 
#45
MGR said:
In my travels thru the craziness that is pedal buying, I am finding that there are two fairly distinct camps with regards to bass distortion.......those who want a clean blend and those who seem virulently against the idea.

Now, I'm an agnostic on this one....I'll admit, I don't own any clean blend OD pedals, and some of the ones I've heard (which shall remain nameless) sound like the two signals don't really work together.

But I've also heard the B3K, which I love the sound of......

So my question is really aimed at those who feel strongly one way or the other.....and most importantly WHY you feel this way. This thread is not intended to troll, and it is not intended to be a bash fest.
Click to expand...
I like using a blend because i want my dirt to add to my sound not just change my sound if that makes sense.
 
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#48
Nephilymbass said:
Id also like to add that while separate wet and dry volume knobs is nice having a blend and a volume is just as effective.
Click to expand...

Not really, because when you turn up the effect on a mix/blend/balance control, you also turn down your clean signal at the same time, right?
I like having 2 separate volume controls, first I set my clean sound to unity gain, then with the dry control I mix in the effect, without turning down the clean in the process.

It's like have a little 2 channel mixing board build into the pedal.
 
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#50
Bass Growler said:
Not really, because when you turn up the effect on a mix/blend/balance control, you also turn down your clean signal at the same time, right?
I like having 2 separate volume controls, first I set my clean sound to unity gain, then with the dry control I mix in the effect, without turning down the clean in the process.

It's like have a little 2 channel mixing board build into the pedal.
Click to expand...

When you have a blend and you mix in more of the wet sound yes it does in turn lower the dry sognal , but this can be compensated for with a volume knob. To achieve the exact same results as separate dry and wet controls.
 
#51
Only if the volume knob controls the clean volume.
Which in turn would boost the entire output level of the pedal along with it, which would also require a master volume on the output of the pedal to bring the total volume down again.

Doesn't make sense to me, do you have an example of a pedal with such a setup?
 
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#53
Pacodelivery said:
Sorry to Zombie this thread, but I was wondering if any of you in the "no clean blends ever" camp have any suggestions for where to look, specifically for fuzz.

I've had the EHX Bass Big Muff Pi & the Deluxe version, a GGG Rams head muff clone, a '71 supercollider, and finally a SUF civil war. The civil war has finally the sound I want, and I'm looking for something higher gain to compliment it and the wooly mammoth clone on my board.
Click to expand...
There is no shortage of fuzz pedals without blends. The Fuzzrocious Grey Stache is pretty popular around here as is the Blackout Effectors Musket. Abominable Electronics has a very good Muff and Russian Muff clones for around $125. If you can pony up the cheddar Dunwich Amp's Wizard Fuzz is one of the more unique sounding fuzz boxes I've heard, and the guy that does the mass production for DA has his own Magick Fuzz that I haven't heard on bass.
 
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#54
I agree with a lot of the comments about blended dirt sounding like two signals that just don't hang together.

One of the reasons I'm so in love with my Darkglass stuff is that the blend and the tones do work together - I can turn the knobs and get to something that sounds weird, but that is the exception.

I wasn't thrilled with the blend/volume combo when I was reading reviews, either. I thought it'd be awkward to get the right mix...why not just give me two volumes? What I've found is that in practice, it's amazing, and blend is by far my most twiddled knob. I'm actually working up the courage to mod the pedal to make the blend an expression input...

What I do is set my basic tone, then pan back and forth between dirt and clean, using level to set the volumes of both signals to be equal. Then I set the blend where I want it. This makes it really easy to bend down and pull the dirt out, or blast the signal with nastiness, without worrying about volume. The blend becomes a single knob for incredibly fine tone control. Love.
 
#55
Pacodelivery said:
Sorry to Zombie this thread, but I was wondering if any of you in the "no clean blends ever" camp have any suggestions for where to look, specifically for fuzz.

I've had the EHX Bass Big Muff Pi & the Deluxe version, a GGG Rams head muff clone, a '71 supercollider, and finally a SUF civil war. The civil war has finally the sound I want, and I'm looking for something higher gain to compliment it and the wooly mammoth clone on my board.
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, I'm having much good luck using a VT Bass pedal cranked all the way up as a fuzz. Never even considered the idea for a long time, then one day I figured I'd give it a shot and compared it to my Team Awesome Fuzz Machine. Won't say the VT was better but it was as good for my own fuzz needs.
 
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#56
Depends. I don't really like clean blend most of the time. I do use a little via an LS-2 with my Lazer Fuzz but I use just enough to bring some lows back on some of the settings; it's hardly noticeable. I only have one dirt with a clean blend built in(Gnomeratron VTF)and I only use the clean on that when I use the octave up and the clean on the Gnome isn't really clean or in most cases necessary. I think the people that hate blends are more disliking the fact that in many pedals a clean blend(usually poorly executed)is used as a lazy way to make something bass friendly that wasn't at first rather than actually designing something that works on bass.
 
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#57
CoarseBass said:
I agree with a lot of the comments about blended dirt sounding like two signals that just don't hang together.

One of the reasons I'm so in love with my Darkglass stuff is that the blend and the tones do work together - I can turn the knobs and get to something that sounds weird, but that is the exception.

I wasn't thrilled with the blend/volume combo when I was reading reviews, either. I thought it'd be awkward to get the right mix...why not just give me two volumes? What I've found is that in practice, it's amazing, and blend is by far my most twiddled knob. I'm actually working up the courage to mod the pedal to make the blend an expression input...

What I do is set my basic tone, then pan back and forth between dirt and clean, using level to set the volumes of both signals to be equal. Then I set the blend where I want it. This makes it really easy to bend down and pull the dirt out, or blast the signal with nastiness, without worrying about volume. The blend becomes a single knob for incredibly fine tone control. Love.
Click to expand...
Darkglass does a great job. I sold my B3K because I didn't like the tone, but the engineering was spot on. Really one of the better single knob solutions.
 
#58
I feel that only seeking out dirt pedals that effectively hold the low end and/or have a clean blend built in is somewhat limiting. I think that, especially for bass players seeking out the right dirt pedal, it is important to find the right VOICING that speaks to you... one that is able to carry out the sound in your head and fulfill your creative needs... and yes, destroy the planet.

But seriously, there are so many tools available to help make almost any pedal usable (blenders, eq pedals,). With my Rat, I prefer a good ol Boss LS2 to use as a clean blend. While I'm on that subject, I actually prefer a pedal like the LS2 over something like the Xotic because it has the two separate volume controls rather than the blend. Personal taste, but I always hated the sacrificing one sound for the other aspect of a single blend knob. Plus I a b'd them like crazy one day at band practice, and the LS2 helped me cut through much better with both the clean blend and full on distortion in tact.
 
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#59
King Weapon said:
I feel that only seeking out dirt pedals that effectively hold the low end and/or have a clean blend built in is somewhat limiting. I think that, especially for bass players seeking out the right dirt pedal, it is important to find the right VOICING that speaks to you... one that is able to carry out the sound in your head and fulfill your creative needs... and yes, destroy the planet.

But seriously, there are so many tools available to help make almost any pedal usable (blenders, eq pedals,). With my Rat, I prefer a good ol Boss LS2 to use as a clean blend. While I'm on that subject, I actually prefer a pedal like the LS2 over something like the Xotic because it has the two separate volume controls rather than the blend. Personal taste, but I always hated the sacrificing one sound for the other aspect of a single blend knob. Plus I a b'd them like crazy one day at band practice, and the LS2 helped me cut through much better with both the clean blend and full on distortion in tact.
Click to expand...

Finding a pedal with the right "Voicing" is the same thing driving me. With muffs, I found plenty of pedals that held the low end well, and made some cool sounds, but it wasn't until I got my suf civil war that I felt that the distortion was voiced in the same sonic spectrum I like my sound to sit, namely the low mids.

I'm currently on the same hunt for an od or distortion, and the hardwire cm2 and way huge green rhino I've owned are both pretty cool but still sit the distortion above my fundamental.
 
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