Cliff Burton?

[WuvMuffin72]

How was he not good as a technical bassist? That statement puzzles me. Burton also played jazz, and by that point, you've probably eliminated a lot of bad habits in your playing. Thanks to his classical + jazz background, he also composed sick pieces and had probably one of the most expressive solos I have ever listened to.

And have I mentioned that he's a sick composer yet? Sure I have, it's worth mentioning twice.

 

[ggoat!!!]

I just listened to that clip of Jason Newsted attempting to play "The Call of Ktulu"...that is some of the WORST attempts at bass playing I've EVER heard. That seriously was pure ass.

 

[Implosion]

Have you guys by any chance listened the isolated bass tracks that are in Guitar Hero: Metallica? You know, the original bass tracks taken from the master tapes from different albums. Search YouTube, they are there easily available.

Burton's playing isn't that mind blowing: Master of Puppets. Also I would like to comment that Newsted plays his parts quite well: Dyers Eve

NOTE: I'm not saying that Burton is a bad player. Just the fact that Burton is always raised to a pedestal as he was the re-incarnation of Jesus playing bass and Newsted is always commented to be the Vanilla Ice of bassplaying.

 

[thedrummer]

When I first heard Burton's isolated bass tracks, I was suprised how simple they were compared to what I thought he was playing. I always assumed that he was playing the guitar parts. He does a pretty cool little melody during "Cannot kill the family, battery is found in me", but it's buried on the original recording.

 

[Allmanfan456]

1. He studied Bach-- that's pretty impressive for a metal bassist.
2. He taught Kirk Hammet how to play quite a bit of stuff.
3. Orion
4. Damage Inc.

Dont forget Call of Ktulu. Cliff does some sick stuff there.

 

[wld3]

First of all, zombie thread...

I liked Cliff and think he was significantly responsible for the early sound and success of Metallica.

However, I don't find his playing to be anything particularly special and, forgive me for being critical of an iconic musician, I personally think his sound was absolutely dreadful.

 

[J-Building]

Call me crazy, but I think that if Metallica wasn't getting a new bassist every few days, they'd have broken up by now. It's this change in musical direction that keeps them together because they don't have to argue about where they want to go when they get a new bassist. Everything kind of automatically changes.

 

[MusicBokonon]

First of all, zombie thread...

+1. To add to that...

(not really trolling, but all the replies will make it seem like it is. That and I find this pic funny )

With my stupidity out of the way, I don't think he was overrated. Try playing anything off of Kill 'Em All or Ride the Lightning and tell me different.

IMO, he was also the first to bring bass distortion to the attention of the music world. Before that, the bass was mostly clean while the guitars provided distortion (there are exceptions, of course).

 

[Gearhead17]

Maybe Cliff was not the greatest metal bassist ever - honestly I don't like putting people on that high of a pedestal in anything.

I respect Cliff Burton a whole lot and he is one of my idols. The reason he gets talked about: Thrash Metal in the early 80's featured many bass players just chugging along and not adding much to the song. Think of the first Slayer or early Venom albums - the bass is so buried in the mix, you need a crew of six to find it! Cliff was hugely different and was treated like a lead bass player - he did wild solos and what Thrash metal band let their bass player do an entire bass solo as one track? He threw in a lot of counter melody and other bits and pieces in songs that would otherwise be nothing but straight 8th or 16th notes. The entire Kill Em' All album is all fingerstyle - most people I talk to can't play with their fingers that fast.

For Whom the Bell Tolls was a special one - what bands lets the bass player do the lead on the intro? He leads the band for several bars until everyone joins in - it's pretty damn cool.

I dare any of you to try Fight Fire With Fire with your fingers and keep up.

Newstead did some decent bass lines, King Nothing is quite catchy and Enter Sandman is not bad at all.

When Cliff died, where did Metallica go? A different direction and the music became simpler.

Should Cliff be on a pedestal as the greatest bassist ever, no, but he was a good bassist and he did make Metallica special on those first three albums.

 

[ThisisCraigP]

It's true he was Metallica. The albums they put out after he died were crap compared to the 3 he contributed to. Jason Newstead and Robert T-whatever are OK but Cliff Burton owns both of them.

 

[pigsonthewing]

I like Cliff and Metallica to an extent, but I think Metallica as a whole is completely overrated.

 

[geezerharris]

he's good at solos, but he's not a "tasteful" bassist in the sense of writing bass lines for a song. there are no good cliff lines when he isnt soloing. he's overrated. the best bassist write good lines for the song, not just for their own solos.

 

[Qvist]

he's good at solos, but he's not a "tasteful" bassist in the sense of writing bass lines for a song. there are no good cliff lines when he isnt soloing. he's overrated. the best bassist write good lines for the song, not just for their own solos.

You dont think Fade to black has a good bassline? Cmon that hammer on pull off thing just before the "heavy part" in the middle of the song, is awesome!!

 

[Mad Russian]

Cliff helped shape how metal bass players would play. Before Cliff - what metal bassist had his style, sound, vibe, etc? NO ONE.

 

[polydeathsphere]

Uh oh, I don't like where this is going. And usually it results in the person saying "Well, Newsted has no feel when he plays cause he USES A PICK!" But, I won't get into it and I respect peoples opinions.

EDIT: Also, Metallica wouldn't have picked Newsted if they thought he 'sucked'.

It doesn't matter if they thought Newsted sucked because they also picked Robert Trujillo. Since Cliff they managed to forget what good bass playing is.

Now onto the OP. Cliff wasn't an amazingggg bassist but he knew how to play is hands off and had the perfect sound and style of playing for the band. He was good enough to stand out along side the giant ego's that make up Metallica and that shows enough

 

[sloasdaylight]

Sigh. This is somewhat of a rant not directly targeted at this thread or anyone in it per-say.

Part of the problem when you're talking about Cliff is all the fanbois who are like: "ZOMG HE'S TEH BEST EVAR! LISTEN TO MOP OMG OMG OMG!!" Then pretentious Jaco or Manring fans say: "Oh ya? Listen to this (insert youtube link here). Then tell me he's better". Or people bring up other bass players who're known more for their solo work, or studio work with zillions of other bands across different backgrounds and this and that and that and this. What everyone who does that loses sight of is the fact that none of those bassists they mention, while good, were in Metallica, or were a part of the metal movement that arose at that time in LA and SF. Being a lead bass player, like some one like manrig or Jaco or anyone else like them, in a 2 guitar 80s thrash metal band is about as easy as stopping an avalanche with a set of snow shoes. When you enter into a situation like that you've got to do what works within the confines of the band.

People also lose sight I think of the fact that Cliff was only 21 when he put out his first album (Kill em all), and only 24 when he died. Jaco was 23 when he put out his first album, and died when he was 35. Sean (Malone), and Manring likewise were both older than Cliff when they released their first albums. So for some one who was touring the world by the time he was 22-23, and really only starting to explore his possibilities as a bass player, I don't think it's really all that far off the mark to assume and rank him on what he "could" have done, not to mention that in my opinion it's an unfair comparison to some of the true greats of solo virtuosic bass playing, because, quite simply, Cliff wasn't a solo player.

 

[Qvist]

^^ Nicely said sloasdaylight!

 

[pleadies]

Jason newstead is a ****ing monster man. Just watch live binge and purge the guy has a huge stage presence and I believe James might have have even been a little insecure about although I cant say that for sure but for some reason I get that impression. And He does great backing vocals since he has left metallica it has been very noticable to my ears anyway. He has been metallicas best bassist they should have looked after him.

 

[pleadies]

It doesn't matter if they thought Newsted sucked because they also picked Robert Trujillo. Since Cliff they managed to forget what good bass playing is.

Now onto the OP. Cliff wasn't an amazingggg bassist but he knew how to play is hands off and had the perfect sound and style of playing for the band. He was good enough to stand out along side the giant ego's that make up Metallica and that shows enough

lol yes he plays with a pick Picks rule ha ha listen to the master tracks and see who is cleaner sharper and more precise Newstead comes out on top by a long shot Im not going to knock the other metallica bassists as they are better than me in the first place

 

[pleadies]

Maybe Cliff was not the greatest metal bassist ever - honestly I don't like putting people on that high of a pedestal in anything.

I respect Cliff Burton a whole lot and he is one of my idols. The reason he gets talked about: Thrash Metal in the early 80's featured many bass players just chugging along and not adding much to the song. Think of the first Slayer or early Venom albums - the bass is so buried in the mix, you need a crew of six to find it! Cliff was hugely different and was treated like a lead bass player - he did wild solos and what Thrash metal band let their bass player do an entire bass solo as one track? He threw in a lot of counter melody and other bits and pieces in songs that would otherwise be nothing but straight 8th or 16th notes. The entire Kill Em' All album is all fingerstyle - most people I talk to can't play with their fingers that fast.

For Whom the Bell Tolls was a special one - what bands lets the bass player do the lead on the intro? He leads the band for several bars until everyone joins in - it's pretty damn cool.

I dare any of you to try Fight Fire With Fire with your fingers and keep up.

Newstead did some decent bass lines, King Nothing is quite catchy and Enter Sandman is not bad at all.

When Cliff died, where did Metallica go? A different direction and the music became simpler.

Should Cliff be on a pedestal as the greatest bassist ever, no, but he was a good bassist and he did make Metallica special on those first three albums.

Not knocking cliff at all bro and respect him greatly as a pioneer of metal. He was pretty sloppy though and he would have been better of using a pick imo. I listened to some of the master tracks on youtube he misses notes when it gets fast etc and sounds really muddy. I liked him more when he played stuff like orion etc. Newstead was tight and precise hit every note, also was a part of the whole 8o's scene also forget the name of the band he was in at the time before he joined metallica.