Then get a fretless with lines, but don't rip out the frets that Jimmy so carefully and painstakingly installed!
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Club Alleva Coppolo (Part 11!)
- Thread starter Bryan R. Tyler
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Then get a fretless with lines, but don't rip out the frets that Jimmy so carefully and painstakingly installed!
The last post I made made me wonder how many other AC owners feel the way I do about their instruments. I think a big part of it was meeting Jimmy, talking to him, and seeing him look and stare at the bass before he decided he would sell it to me, but does anyone feel that their AC is almost sacred in a way that no work should ever be done to it? Jimmy was definitely weird about my instrument -- almost to the point where I didn't want to take it to him after a while. He tried to get me to only use Zon strings on it, which I thought was definitely odd. It's also why I didn't want to tell any of you guys that I had been using flatwounds on it.
The reason I bring all this up is that I have been experiencing some noise for some time, and I'm conflicted on how to deal with it. I am definitely considering some copper shielding, but I've never done it, and I don't have a lot of experience soldering.
Another thing I have been considering is replacing the pickups with some noiseless pickups. Is this sacrilege? What should I do with the hand-wound pickups if I do replace them? Am I going to lose so much of what makes this bass special? What would you guys do in my situation?
The reason I bring all this up is that I have been experiencing some noise for some time, and I'm conflicted on how to deal with it. I am definitely considering some copper shielding, but I've never done it, and I don't have a lot of experience soldering.
Another thing I have been considering is replacing the pickups with some noiseless pickups. Is this sacrilege? What should I do with the hand-wound pickups if I do replace them? Am I going to lose so much of what makes this bass special? What would you guys do in my situation?
What kind of noise are you experiencing and when does it happen?
I bet its a simple grounding issue and can be repaired simply.
IMO DONT change your pickups Jimmy's hand wound pickups are 1/2 the mojo of his basses....
I bet its a simple grounding issue and can be repaired simply.
IMO DONT change your pickups Jimmy's hand wound pickups are 1/2 the mojo of his basses....
Oh yeah.
I know some Celinders, but the ones I've felt were more of a medium C whereas my LG is a shallower C (which I really like better). I owned a really nice Celinder Update 5 for a while, and have played a few other Celinders, tho only briefly. I'm trying to remember, but I think the RA's at NAMM were a bit deeper, but the LM's were more like mine.
So Vic if i understand you right , you would say the Celinders are less "shallow " than the AC? Because i have also briefly played a Celinder update and that one was quite shallow C already ( can i use the term "flat" on the back of the neck- LOL sounds like a rhyme ACbacknecksong
What would I do?
Drop the $200 to send the bass round trip to Jimmy and back and have him do whatever you need.
Interresting , the thing i am most worried about is to get noise/buzz/hum or whatsoever on my AC bass LG5 i ordered.
Especially when using only the bridge pickup ( like the hum Fender Jazz basses encounter).
So is copperfoil isolation not standard with the AC bass?
some of it is ground buzz, but when I solo either pickup, I get fierce 60 cycle hum.
Mine was a pre-production mule, so it isn't representative of production AC basses.
I'm gonna' respectfully disagree... but in a qualified way. In short, I think lines are ok for beginners and on lower end basses to get started with, but longer term on nicer instruments, not. And on the intonation note, you can have lines and use them, and still not have good enough intonation. You have to use your ears for that part... especially up higher on the neck where even rolling your finger a little bit in the same spot can make or break you.
All the pro fretless players I've seen either don't have them, or they have them but don't use them. I NEED to have the ability to play my instruments without looking at my hands.
IMHO, once you get truly proficient at playing fretless, the lines actually do more harm than good if you try to use them. All you should need is side dots as a "quick guide" for long jumps... and really... eventually... not even those.
I used to play a lot of fretless electric and even upright back in the 80's when jazz was a much bigger part of my life, and if I had to look at my hands much in those days, I'd have been booted from the combo and big band. And song memorization is not a 100% reliable option. You just never know when the director is gonna' toss out a chart you haven't played in a while. Not only that, but what about the darker orchestra pits? Lines don't do you any good if you can't see those... especially since your eyes are adjusted to the music stand light which only goes as far as your chart if they do it right to avoid light pollution in the show.
It's all about muscle memory and your ears. I'd get a low end fretless with lines just to get started, but I'd never spend big money on a lined fretless, because IMHO(!!) by the time you're ready to truly justify that, you shouldn't be needing the lines anymore.
Again, just MHO, and I have a pretty strong one on this topic as you can tell.
If all he's talking about is a shield job, I'd strongly recommend against this. IMHO, anyone can do this, and even if you're not comfy doing it yourself, I'd think any decent tech could. Definitely don't need Jimmy for that at all, and with his workload, it might take a LONG time to get done.
Chef
In Memoriam
1) shielding paint works pretty well, and is really easy to use
2) I much prefer dots on the side of the f/b for fretless, and a plain, dark ebony f/b.
If you gotta look much, you need to practice more. I like the side dots as a quick flash reference. YMMV, and there's been plenty of threads about that; so....there.
2) I much prefer dots on the side of the f/b for fretless, and a plain, dark ebony f/b.
If you gotta look much, you need to practice more. I like the side dots as a quick flash reference. YMMV, and there's been plenty of threads about that; so....there.
The first issue should be solveable with a shield/ground job. Time consuming, but very low tech. Anyone can do this, and you can get the sticky copper foil from stewmac.com for a nice price.
Here's a word doc I compiled from a nice thread on shielding and grounding if you wanna' feel it out...
Doc...
http://www.serbe.com/images/Jazz_Shielding_Pictorial.doc
From this thread...
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159191
Some of the noise, well, you just have to get used to due to the single coil nature of the pickups.
You asked about hum canceling designs. As far as I know, Jimmy still doesn't have any of these, so you'd be looking to talk to someone like Carey Nordstrand to do a custom version of his NJS to fit the shell (if they didn't already), but I'd think he could do it without killing you on price.
Regarding what types of strings you use, and the consideration of swapping pickups, while I do feel a large chunk of the AC magic is Jimmy's pickups, it's YOUR BASS. YOURS. IMHO you should be free to use what you want, and post comments and questions about it without fear of persecution here.
I can absolutely guarantee you won't get any crap from me about perfectly understandable stuff like noise reduction and string prefs.
Now, if you were gonna' start talking about taking a jigsaw to the body to change the shape, well, I might not be able to resist giving you a hard time about that, but I have yet to see anyone threaten an AC with something like that, so, so far so good.
Peace. Hope this helps.
Definitely agree with both Vic and Chef about the unlined fretless...I think it is better both in looks and in being able to play with good intonation, assuming your ear is "intonated".
With unlined, it may take longer to get properly intonated, but once you do you will rely on your finger positioning and ear much more than with a lined fretless IMO. With a lined fretless, you may succomb to playing "between the lines" without really using your ear as much, and between the lines may not always be the proper intonation. I suppose it all depends on the instruments being played, and quality of said instruments.
With unlined, it may take longer to get properly intonated, but once you do you will rely on your finger positioning and ear much more than with a lined fretless IMO. With a lined fretless, you may succomb to playing "between the lines" without really using your ear as much, and between the lines may not always be the proper intonation. I suppose it all depends on the instruments being played, and quality of said instruments.
Yes, you understand me correctly, and I believe you, but the one I owned was not like that, and I don't recall any of the others I've played as being particularly shallow C's either. They weren't deep, tho, don't get me wrong. I'd just personally think of them as medium.
So Vic if i understand you right , you would say the Celinders are less "shallow " than the AC? Because i have also briefly played a Celinder update and that one was quite shallow C already ( can i use the term "flat" on the back of the neck- LOL sounds like a rhyme ACbacknecksong
vision
It's all about the groove!
- Feb 25, 2005
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- Endorsing Artist: MTD Basses, La Bella Strings, and 64 Audio IEMs
DOH! That's right. I forgot about that one. I was mostly thinking about the Update J5, P4, and P5 at Tom's house.
I know this is the wrong thread for this but I ordered this bass with bloodwood lines , as the top is bloodwood , bad pic with the reflection but they are really not very visible to the audience , although I wish I did not have them now , without lines would have been fine , but it is a cool option , there not white and don't stand out at all , at a dark gig I cant even see them so whats the point , well I needed them and now I don'tI'm gonna' respectfully disagree... but in a qualified way. In short, I think lines are ok for beginners and on lower end basses to get started with, but longer term on nicer instruments, not. And on the intonation note, you can have lines and use them, and still not have good enough intonation. You have to use your ears for that part... especially up higher on the neck where even rolling your finger a little bit in the same spot can make or break you.
All the pro fretless players I've seen either don't have them, or they have them but don't use them. I NEED to have the ability to play my instruments without looking at my hands.
IMHO, once you get truly proficient at playing fretless, the lines actually do more harm than good if you try to use them. All you should need is side dots as a "quick guide" for long jumps... and really... eventually... not even those.
I used to play a lot of fretless electric and even upright back in the 80's when jazz was a much bigger part of my life, and if I had to look at my hands much in those days, I'd have been booted from the combo and big band. And song memorization is not a 100% reliable option. You just never know when the director is gonna' toss out a chart you haven't played in a while. Not only that, but what about the darker orchestra pits? Lines don't do you any good if you can't see those... especially since your eyes are adjusted to the music stand light which only goes as far as your chart if they do it right to avoid light pollution in the show.
It's all about muscle memory and your ears. I'd get a low end fretless with lines just to get started, but I'd never spend big money on a lined fretless, because IMHO(!!) by the time you're ready to truly justify that, you shouldn't be needing the lines anymore.
Again, just MHO, and I have a pretty strong one on this topic as you can tell.
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It's your bass, do what makes you happy. Including choosing strings you like.
If OTOH peer pressure really is an issue, check with the guys before you do anything.
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