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Club FBass (Part 5)

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#761
puff father said:
I think that F basses are designed so that the preamp is an integral part of the whole design.
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Oh yeah, absolutely!

Maybe I'm reading too much into what's been said, too.

I guess my main thing is, some posts read to me as if to say the bass relies more heavily on boosting the preamp than I think is the case (IMHO)... like folks are pretty much compelled to always play the bass that way, and that flat/passive is essentially useless as a result. Don't get me wrong, I love using the preamp... it's one of the best out there... I guess I'm just saying I'm not always compelled to use it.

Again tho, just MHO/FWIW.
 
#763
peterpalmieri said:
I've always been an eyes and ear kind of guy with pickups. What is the best device for making these types of measurements? I just got done with Drozd setup book and want to start being more precise...or at least reproducable..
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if eyes and ears work, stick with it. i never measure anything. i only did it because vic asked.

each bass is different so you have to know what you want and do it enough times to where you can replicate it quickly. one set of measurements wont work for every bass. especially pickup height. as ken mentioned, the ac's neck pickup is lower than the bridge, and to get that same wide sound on the f he had to raise the neck pickup. your ears have to be the judge.
 
#764
narud said:
if eyes and ears work, stick with it. i never measure anything. i only did it because vic asked.
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Right.

Maybe this is more for Peter, but I don't have a "problem" with my bass' tone AT ALL, and I also typically eyeball my setup. However, with the discussion with Ken regarding the neck pickup height in particular, I was just curious as to 1) how different mine was and 2) if it was different, maybe changing mine to match and compare.
 
#765
dkb said:
Those A-C's sound great, but man, that headstock is only something a mother could love!
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I absolutely love the look of the A-C headstock, but of course, anything aesthetic is purely personal. Also, it serves a real purpose. A normal size headstock on a 34" flat sawn maple neck is a wonderful combination for producing deadspots. My new VF5 has the typical deadspot (about moderate in severity) in the typical area (, in my case, Db on my G string, with a slight reduction in fundamental an octave below on the A string) that most Fender style basses have. My A-C's have virtually even neck response, with deadspots so slight that you don't even know they are there unless you really listen, at least partially due to the increase mass of the headstock... it's like having a 'fatfinger' built in. And, due to the full size J body, these basses balance as well as any bass I've ever had.

So, partially aesthetics, but also a bit of a 'stroke of genius'!:bassist:

I actually love the F headstock on the BN models... it's a touch of a disconnect on a J style instrument for me... but minor deal there.
 
#766
narud said:
it doesnt really work the same way when you back off the bridge pickup. something happens when both pickups are dimed with the phase cancellation that doesnt happen when you just back off one of the pickups a little bit. at least imo.;)
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+1.. for example, I now can't exactly reproduce the very modern 'burp' that was built into my VF when it left the shop (I assume) and had the bridge pickup so much higher (and hence favored) over the neck pickup when dimed. The ability to get a full, deep, balanced, even tone with both pickups dimed was well worth the trade-off of having to goose the pre a bit more to compensate for a 'less over the top' meaty burp when I now dial the neck pickup back a bit.

Amazing how all this stuff interacts.
 
#767
narud said:
if eyes and ears work, stick with it. i never measure anything. i only did it because vic asked.

each bass is different so you have to know what you want and do it enough times to where you can replicate it quickly. one set of measurements wont work for every bass. especially pickup height. as ken mentioned, the ac's neck pickup is lower than the bridge, and to get that same wide sound on the f he had to raise the neck pickup. your ears have to be the judge.
Click to expand...

I agree but I'd still like to get a measuring device so I know what it is, for no other reason then I am curious..
 
#768
KJung said:
+1.. for example, I now can't exactly reproduce the very modern 'burp' that was built into my VF when it left the shop
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guys considering buying a bass like this arent aiming for that modern burp tough in the first place. heavy ash, maple board, 70's spacing. thats marcus miller,sekou bunch,mark adams,baron browne etc, not jaco. i mentioned this in the last f bass thread and caught some flack for it, but i dont think these are being shipped out from the factory to sound like the fenders they can sound like.

thats going to cause some problems for guys giving these a casual review after playing them in shops. the two i played at the ampshop in sherman oaks and none of the video clips i thought sounded as "fendery" as how i have it setup now. the way it shipped almost had you calling wack on this bass after shelling out the dough. the factory setup almost had me wanting to sell mine after one gig.
 
#769
peterpalmieri said:
I agree but I'd still like to get a measuring device so I know what it is, for no other reason then I am curious..
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Changing pickup height will make the most drastic difference in how the bass will sound. It amazes me that some one who spends $3000 on a custom bass isn't concerned with setting it up properly.
Believe me, Sarah at Fbass does not spend a lot of time making sure pickups are set ideally - ie with a steel rule, it's all done by eye. No knock on Fbass, but they're a busy shop with not a lot of people.
 
#770
RoboChrist said:
Changing pickup height will make the most drastic difference in how the bass will sound. It amazes me that some one who spends $3000 on a custom bass isn't concerned with setting it up properly.
Believe me, Sarah at Fbass does not spend a lot of time making sure pickups are set ideally - ie with a steel rule, it's all done by eye. No knock on Fbass, but they're a busy shop with not a lot of people.
Click to expand...

I think we are ALL concerned with having a proper set up, including pick up height, hence this discussion. Why would you think otherwise?

Anyway I'd still really like someone to suggest a good device for measuring pick up height, string height etc..
 
#773
narud said:
i think a lot of people spending 3k want something to work for them straight from the box.
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Yes....and frankly, I don't know a luthier who doesn't measure the height of the pickups before the instrument leaves the shop. It doesn't take any more time to do so if you're using the same measurements for all of your instruments. The issue is that what the builder believes works for their basses may not work for the individual player.....it's really simple, just play the bass when you get it. If you aren't happy with the sound than try setting up your bass piece by piece, including adjusting the pickup height.
 
#774
peterpalmieri said:
I think we are ALL concerned with having a proper set up, including pick up height, hence this discussion. Why would you think otherwise?

Anyway I'd still really like someone to suggest a good device for measuring pick up height, string height etc..
Click to expand...

Since the VF is essentially a j bass I would use the heights recommended by fender.

Measured with string depressed at last fret, from pole top to string bottom, both pickups:

B string - 1/8"
G string - 3/32"
 
#775
narud said:
guys considering buying a bass like this arent aiming for that modern burp tough in the first place. heavy ash, maple board, 70's spacing. thats marcus miller,sekou bunch,mark adams,baron browne etc, not jaco. i mentioned this in the last f bass thread and caught some flack for it, but i dont think these are being shipped out from the factory to sound like the fenders they can sound like.

thats going to cause some problems for guys giving these a casual review after playing them in shops. the two i played at the ampshop in sherman oaks and none of the video clips i thought sounded as "fendery" as how i have it setup now. the way it shipped almost had you calling wack on this bass after shelling out the dough. the factory setup almost had me wanting to sell mine after one gig.
Click to expand...

+1 all the way. That's why the tone was such a disconnect for me out of the box. Also, this explains the reviews of all the guys who played these at Low Down Sound when they first came out a couple of years ago. George brought a couple to LDS for the guys to try out (I was out of town).

Detroit is kind of the 'home of the Jazz Bass', and a lot of the guys here are pretty picky. Every single person described the tone of these as similar to the Low End Basses.. modern and burpy (the Low End basses have the bridge pickup even closer to the bridge than 70's spacing, and I think the neck pickup is moved toward the bridge also. I now get what they were hearing versus what you are hearing (and what I am now hearing). It just seems that the 'burp' is more the sound in George's head. Nothing wrong with that... it sounded killer when I first plugged it in.. it just didn't sound much like a Jazz Bass.

So, I don't think this is about sloppiness or quality control, but rather a tonal goal that is a little different from the luthiers who are trying to more nail a true J tone 'out of the box'. For example, Pete Skjold also seems to have this 'favor the bridge pickup tone' in his head, and I believe he has his pickups wound and his pickup heights set to reflect this (from a nice discussion I had with him). Again, nothing 'wrong or sloppy about it', but it ain't gonna sound like a J bass!

Again, beating a dead horse here, but it is a bit interesting. This is the first time I've felt I had to adjust a pickup height in 30 years of playing.
 
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