Club Sadowsky!!!

[pb9717]

I respectfully disagree that how a stage amp sounds on stage is a more accurate representation of the sound you're getting out front. You get coloration from the amp, the stage acoustics, room acoustics etc that don't necessarily translate 25' away in a crowded room i.e. I've found that how it sounds in my iem's is usually very close to what I hear in board recordings, which IME is much closer to what it sounds like coming from the PA. If it sounds good in your ears it's much more likely to sound the same or very close out front. In my experience anyway. Trust your in ears, that's what's going through the FOH.

I agree, the IEM’s offer a more accurate representation of what’s going thru the FOH. And if its not satisfactory through the IEM’s, and the soundman says its not satisfactory goin thru the FOH, then its simply not satisfactory. My point was, IEM’s are a different animal to traditional stage amps, and many prefer the stage amp as monitor ( which in many cases, amps act ONLY as stage monitors) vs IEM’s. Took me a while to get used to them, and I went thru a trial and error of 6 different models including multi driver custom molded IEM’s. Ultimately, I found the single driver sennheiser with sonic foam tips provided the best bass response, and they were cheap ta boot.

Either way, the MetroExpress came to the rescue that day.

 

[Bassmann79]

Thanks for that. I'm more in Mike Starr/Inez territory in terms of what I'm going after, but I keep digging around and trying to learn more. Problem is, it's easy to find information on the wall of thousands of dollars in amps/cabs they had sitting behind them, but no one wants to talk about the $250 BDDI the crowd could actually hear.

In this case, Newsted's tone got cleaner and (IMO) more scooped over the years and I was pondering why.

By the time he switched to Sadowsky, take note of his bass tone both in studio and live. He was less about cutting through with a growl than sitting with the drums. Reload this is very evident and live he dialed back the Sadowsky mid cut a bit with SansAmp gain.

Some examples:

I remember watching this live on Mtv, his sound is again very tight with the drums and no longer super present like with the Alembics, there's more substance to the overall tone IMO and it still cuts through at times



Same show, and definitely a different setting and sounds more "out of the box" Sadowsky

 

[_Some Dude]

By the time he switched to Sadowsky, take note of his bass tone both in studio and live. He was less about cutting through with a growl than sitting with the drums. Reload this is very evident and live he dialed back the Sadowsky mid cut a bit with SansAmp gain.

Some examples:

I remember watching this live on Mtv, his sound is again very tight with the drums and no longer super present like with the Alembics, there's more substance to the overall tone IMO and it still cuts through at times



Same show, and definitely a different setting and sounds more "out of the box" Sadowsky

This mix is great as you can clearly hear the Jazz + SansAmp thing (if I had experience with Sadowsky I'd probably say Sadowsky + SansAmp, but to inexperienced ear it still sounds like a Jazz).

I'm going to disagree that he's sitting with the drums. I think he's merged in with the guitars. Not buried, but dovetailed. When all three go on the attack it sounds like one wall of sound, but when they start going different directions you can hear how he remains up in the rhythm guitar range.

On One it's like he's too far forward for the first 2/3rds of the song, but once the crescendo kicks in and all three guitars go on the attack they merge into one, then the harmonized leads he's carrying the mids.

I find it particularly evident on For Whom the Bell Tolls as you can hear all the counter-point he's doing.

Either way, I agree that he stopped trying to cut/clank his way through the mix and he seemed to go for a smoother sound that sat in the mix better. I think Metallica's later live tone with him was probably peak Metallica.

 

[Bassmann79]

This mix is great as you can clearly hear the Jazz + SansAmp thing (if I had experience with Sadowsky I'd probably say Sadowsky + SansAmp, but to inexperienced ear it still sounds like a Jazz).

I'm going to disagree that he's sitting with the drums. I think he's merged in with the guitars. Not buried, but dovetailed. When all three go on the attack it sounds like one wall of sound, but when they start going different directions you can hear how he remains up in the rhythm guitar range.

On One it's like he's too far forward for the first 2/3rds of the song, but once the crescendo kicks in and all three guitars go on the attack they merge into one, then the harmonized leads he's carrying the mids.

I find it particularly evident on For Whom the Bell Tolls as you can hear all the counter-point he's doing.

Either way, I agree that he stopped trying to cut/clank his way through the mix and he seemed to go for a smoother sound that sat in the mix better. I think Metallica's later live tone with him was probably peak Metallica.

In this performance he is very prominent and I noticed it at the time. Now go watch Cunning Stunts or live videos taken from that time period '96+ and its less punch through than sitting with the drums under the guitars (I may not articulate it the best but that's how I always thought about it), he added a lot more gain from the SansAmp (assuming SansAmp) that kept it from punching out like his Alembics did but it better supported the overall sound IMO.

My favorite is still the Alembic days with Lars' White/Black Granstar kit. \m/

 

[MikeBass]

Still waiting for the Tully Kennedy sig to come out.

@Tullykennedy any word?
Or do I have to modify your old bass that I have with the Super P and Surper J?
Oh, and we’re playing the pre show and after party for you guys up at Soaring Eagle Casino in Michigan next month on the 16th.

 

[HeavyJazz]

Tully's axe is a straight NYC 5-21 PJ Vintage with chambered alder body and morado fingerboard.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Tully's axe is a straight NYC 5-21 PJ Vintage with chambered alder body and morado fingerboard.

I believe Tully's owned a dozen or two Sadowskys, but yeah, he loves the PJ config.

 

[_Some Dude]

In this performance he is very prominent and I noticed it at the time. Now go watch Cunning Stunts or live videos taken from that time period '96+ and its less punch through than sitting with the drums under the guitars (I may not articulate it the best but that's how I always thought about it), he added a lot more gain from the SansAmp (assuming SansAmp) that kept it from punching out like his Alembics did but it better supported the overall sound IMO.

My favorite is still the Alembic days with Lars' White/Black Granstar kit. \m/

Honestly, my guess is that he probably sounded more or less the same on stage during both performances, but the difference is MTV production vs Metallica production.

Cunning Stunts sounds like a fairly typical Metallica mix, whereas MTV is brighter and clearer.

On Cunning Stunts I can still hear him up in the rhythm guitar range, but it's not as bright/cutting. Listening to One, probably 50% of the "guitar" tone on Cunning Stunts is probably Jason, but it's not as in my face or well defined as the MTV mix.

And I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying... just pondering things. Kinda shows how chasing a recorded tone is not necessarily the sound that was actually used to achieve it.

 

[MikeBass]

Tully's axe is a straight NYC 5-21 PJ Vintage with chambered alder body and morado fingerboard.

I believe Tully's owned a dozen or two Sadowskys, but yeah, he loves the PJ config.

He’s been using a Super P/Super J set up and hinted at one point that’s what his signature would be.

I have one of his PJ 5’s. Has a Nordstrand Big Man in the bridge position. Gonna send it off to Sadowsky and have a Super P and Super J put in.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

This bass never disappoints! Rockin’ the new DR Dragon Skin+ strings on this now. Love them!
View attachment 6982925

I love that purple!

 

[BassmusM6674]

I believe Tully's owned a dozen or two Sadowskys, but yeah, he loves the PJ config.

Yes, he does love them. I have one of his Sadowsky 4 strings and... it's a PJ.

 

[grimmchaos]

Honestly, my guess is that he probably sounded more or less the same on stage during both performances, but the difference is MTV production vs Metallica production.

Cunning Stunts sounds like a fairly typical Metallica mix, whereas MTV is brighter and clearer.

On Cunning Stunts I can still hear him up in the rhythm guitar range, but it's not as bright/cutting. Listening to One, probably 50% of the "guitar" tone on Cunning Stunts is probably Jason, but it's not as in my face or well defined as the MTV mix.

And I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying... just pondering things. Kinda shows how chasing a recorded tone is not necessarily the sound that was actually used to achieve it.

Don't forget, one of the big reasons Jason stated he swapped to Sadowsky's was how Roger sweatproofed them for him.. he was destroying the electronics in his other basses because he sweat so much playing live. I'm sure replacing the electronics in an Alembic aren't cheap!

Hopefully in the near future I will have some live video from a gig with the Sadowsky. I tend to dial things in similarly, so it should be fun to see what the crowd hears coming out of the PA. We play 80s/90s/2000's hard rock and metal so I'm curious how they sit with my playing versus my NS2's. And I admit that a Sansamp Steve Harris pedal is a huge part of my sound - I actually only use the EQ on my Mesa WD800 to adjust to the room. My band is not big nor important enough to have a mic on the bass cab either, so with the DI I know what I'm getting every time, whether it's out in front or in my IEM's when I'm using them.

 

[Bassmann79]

Don't forget, one of the big reasons Jason stated he swapped to Sadowsky's was how Roger sweatproofed them for him.. he was destroying the electronics in his other basses because he sweat so much playing live. I'm sure replacing the electronics in an Alembic aren't cheap!

Hopefully in the near future I will have some live video from a gig with the Sadowsky. I tend to dial things in similarly, so it should be fun to see what the crowd hears coming out of the PA. We play 80s/90s/2000's hard rock and metal so I'm curious how they sit with my playing versus my NS2's. And I admit that a Sansamp Steve Harris pedal is a huge part of my sound - I actually only use the EQ on my Mesa WD800 to adjust to the room. My band is not big nor important enough to have a mic on the bass cab either, so with the DI I know what I'm getting every time, whether it's out in front or in my IEM's when I'm using them.

The most important reason had to be the weight...how that man slung 4, 5, and 6 string Alembic variants across his shoulder for 3hrs a night of intense performance I will NEVER grasp.

Sadowsky is like wearing a feather in comparison but yes the sweat factor thing too was huge but weight OMFG I can only imagine the difference he felt. lol

Newsted is not a big guy at all, relatively very thin guy yet handled those monstrous basses like a boss! \m/

The official quote remains

"What’s important for me is the consistency of this instrument time after time and that with Roger [Sadowsky] we developed a great rapport over the years, and he understands what I need in a bass. It has to be very light weight and very heavy sounding, a combination between those two things. I have to play a really light instrument now because of my neck problems over the years, and so that’s what he’s been able to build for me. He is building two new ones right now that are gonna be really f***ing sick, so, we’ve got it dialed, we got new electronics dialed, I went to pick the bodies out… So I’ll stick with Sadowsky pretty much to the end."

Jason Newsted about his rig and Sadowsky basses - TopGuitar.eu

In an interview with Jason Newsted, the legendary bass player of Metallica, Voivod and Flotsam and Jetsam, currently fronting his

topguitar.eu

 

[_Some Dude]

Don't forget, one of the big reasons Jason stated he swapped to Sadowsky's was how Roger sweatproofed them for him.. he was destroying the electronics in his other basses because he sweat so much playing live. I'm sure replacing the electronics in an Alembic aren't cheap!

Hopefully in the near future I will have some live video from a gig with the Sadowsky. I tend to dial things in similarly, so it should be fun to see what the crowd hears coming out of the PA. We play 80s/90s/2000's hard rock and metal so I'm curious how they sit with my playing versus my NS2's. And I admit that a Sansamp Steve Harris pedal is a huge part of my sound - I actually only use the EQ on my Mesa WD800 to adjust to the room. My band is not big nor important enough to have a mic on the bass cab either, so with the DI I know what I'm getting every time, whether it's out in front or in my IEM's when I'm using them.

That sounds like a killer setup. I was generally a Jazz (occasionally P) through a WD800 up until my current band. For some reason, with this band I can never get the Mesa to sit right. I switched to an SVT and BDDI, then struggled with getting a passive bass to cut and switched to an NS4CR. Spector+BDDI+Ampeg has been pure gold. Some gigs I get a mic, some I don't. Depends on the soundman.

Some day I may switch to a Sadowsky as I'm still a fan of the Jazz thing, although I've also considered throwing EMGs in my J, possibly with a Sadowsky pre.

I finally gave in and added a compressor a couple days ago after seeing one in Jason's rig. I don't normally like playing through a compression (I'd rather they add it at FOH), but I figure these guys must know something and I'm here to learn...

 

[Bassmann79]

That sounds like a killer setup. I was generally a Jazz (occasionally P) through a WD800 up until my current band. For some reason, with this band I can never get the Mesa to sit right. I switched to an SVT and BDDI, then struggled with getting a passive bass to cut and switched to an NS4CR. Spector+BDDI+Ampeg has been pure gold. Some gigs I get a mic, some I don't. Depends on the soundman.

Some day I may switch to a Sadowsky as I'm still a fan of the Jazz thing, although I've also considered throwing EMGs in my J, possibly with a Sadowsky pre.

I finally gave in and added a compressor a couple days ago after seeing one in Jason's rig. I don't normally like playing through a compression (I'd rather they add it at FOH), but I figure these guys must know something and I'm here to learn...

You could always play with one of these outboard preamps

Sadowsky SPB-2 (V2) Bass Preamp

Buy Sadowsky SPB2 Bass Preamp 🎸Lowest Allowed Price‼️ Free US Shipping from our In Stock inventory ✅ Fat Bass Tone offers Expert Technical Support

fatbasstone.com

 

[_Some Dude]

You could always play with one of these outboard preamps

Sadowsky SPB-2 (V2) Bass Preamp

Buy Sadowsky SPB2 Bass Preamp 🎸Lowest Allowed Price‼️ Free US Shipping from our In Stock inventory ✅ Fat Bass Tone offers Expert Technical Support

fatbasstone.com

It's been a thought off and on for a few years. If I go back to passive Fender's I'll look into it for sure.

 

[R&B]

It's been a thought off and on for a few years. If I go back to passive Fender's I'll look into it for sure.

Yep, the Sadowsky sound anytime, any bass.

 

[Rdore2000]

Don't forget, one of the big reasons Jason stated he swapped to Sadowsky's was how Roger sweatproofed them for him.. he was destroying the electronics in his other basses because he sweat so much playing live. I'm sure replacing the electronics in an Alembic aren't cheap!

Hopefully in the near future I will have some live video from a gig with the Sadowsky. I tend to dial things in similarly, so it should be fun to see what the crowd hears coming out of the PA. We play 80s/90s/2000's hard rock and metal so I'm curious how they sit with my playing versus my NS2's. And I admit that a Sansamp Steve Harris pedal is a huge part of my sound - I actually only use the EQ on my Mesa WD800 to adjust to the room. My band is not big nor important enough to have a mic on the bass cab either, so with the DI I know what I'm getting every time, whether it's out in front or in my IEM's when I'm using them.

I've done the Sadowsky + Steve Harris pedal thing too! Sounds sweet.

 

[grimmchaos]

The most important reason had to be the weight...how that man slung 4, 5, and 6 string Alembic variants across his shoulder for 3hrs a night of intense performance I will NEVER grasp.

Sadowsky is like wearing a feather in comparison but yes the sweat factor thing too was huge but weight OMFG I can only imagine the difference he felt. lol

Newsted is not a big guy at all, relatively very thin guy yet handled those monstrous basses like a boss! \m/

The official quote remains

"What’s important for me is the consistency of this instrument time after time and that with Roger [Sadowsky] we developed a great rapport over the years, and he understands what I need in a bass. It has to be very light weight and very heavy sounding, a combination between those two things. I have to play a really light instrument now because of my neck problems over the years, and so that’s what he’s been able to build for me. He is building two new ones right now that are gonna be really f***ing sick, so, we’ve got it dialed, we got new electronics dialed, I went to pick the bodies out… So I’ll stick with Sadowsky pretty much to the end."

Jason Newsted about his rig and Sadowsky basses - TopGuitar.eu

In an interview with Jason Newsted, the legendary bass player of Metallica, Voivod and Flotsam and Jetsam, currently fronting his

topguitar.eu

Yeah, I can only imagine how much those weighed. My local shop had an Alembic maybe 10 years ago and it must have been a 12lb bass. My back isn't in great shape from karate/sports/multiple injuries, so I welcome any relief I can find.

There must be some voodoo magic put in these basses to make them so light yet so well balanced.

 

[Bassmann79]

Yeah, I can only imagine how much those weighed. My local shop had an Alembic maybe 10 years ago and it must have been a 12lb bass. My back isn't in great shape from karate/sports/multiple injuries, so I welcome any relief I can find.

There must be some voodoo magic put in these basses to make them so light yet so well balanced.

Roger chambered the bodies, it reduces the weight but he has it down to such a science it has no effect on the quality of sound. Like a lot of us I first heard of Sadowsky from well, Newsted! Years later I found myself capable of purchasing one and I immediately got it! \m/

Every time I play lets say my custom Spector NS-2, then grab one of my Sadowsky NYC's, it's laughable the weight difference. lol