If you reverse the p on a sadowsky, the high side moves forward a little to the same place as a J pickup, The low side moves back a little. So as a guy that actually owns a PJ5 and has had the same issue and discussed it with Roger...it works. For me.
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If you reverse the p on a sadowsky, the high side moves forward a little to the same place as a J pickup, The low side moves back a little. So as a guy that actually owns a PJ5 and has had the same issue and discussed it with Roger...it works. For me.
It's definitely a personal preference thing.
I had my first P-bass converted to PJ back around 1980 simply for versatility's sake, but I'm a P-bass guy at heart. My first Sadowsky was P-only. My recent Sadowsky is PJ (wasn't a pre-order), and I agree with what some folks have said about the D&G strings: nasal tone, not as full as JJ. It's a modern tone... reminds me of a Ken Smith, sorta. I don't dislike it, I just prefer vanilla P to either PJ or JJ.
It also reminds me of Vic Wooten's Fodera. Even though the Monarch is a very different instrument construction-wise, the PJ placement has a signature vibe that stands out. IME, pickup placement is at least as important as any other factor when it comes to tone.
I don't think you did. I think it's well understood it's just a pref thing, and like I said, it's totally cool. Really!
There's a few things going on here.
Let's toss aside the fact that a P pickup just sounds different from a J neck pickup for now, and talk about spacing...
First, the low strings on the PJ have the pole pieces about 28" from the nut, whereas it's about 1/4" or so less on the J, so even for the low strings, the neck pickup on the J is farther from the bridge. On the higher strings on the P pickup, they're even further back, so in theory, a P should have a thinner sounding higher section than compared to a solo'd neck J pickup.
Here's where the plot thickens a bit. At least on a Sadowsky PJ, the bridge pickup is also just slightly further towards the bridge. Not like 70's spacing, but just a bit... about 1/8" or maybe just a tad more.
So let's go neck and neck for a sec...
I'd have to do some direct A/B'ing I can't do right now, but I suspect the J neck pickup will have a slightly bigger and rounder low end, but not have the thicker woodier low mids of the series wound bigger coiled P pickup, which is what sets that pickup apart from the rest, and defines the magic of it IMHO.
From an overall sound perspective (blended)...
It's easy to see why the PJ is going to sound different and in some ways more aggressive than a JJ, and even differ from the low to high strings in this characteristic. Now, I kinda' like this, and have typically dug PJ's in general, but it is something that would be highly subjective and somewhat polarizing (as we've seen here).
Anyway, FWIW.
HI
Ive always played JJ basses but have owned 3 Sadowsky pj's. Two were NYC's, one was a metro hybrid. I still have the hybrid and have played it so much Ive already started wearing out the first 4 frets in a couple of years!! It kills. I dont know the technical talk or can put into words to you how it sounds. Just sounds sooooooooooooo good. Covers any tune I need it to. A little thicker when dialed towards the J pickup opposed to a JJ. P panned is killer, especially rock tunes with a pick or raggae/dub style. J neck is awesome, also
Rob
Ive always played JJ basses but have owned 3 Sadowsky pj's. Two were NYC's, one was a metro hybrid. I still have the hybrid and have played it so much Ive already started wearing out the first 4 frets in a couple of years!! It kills. I dont know the technical talk or can put into words to you how it sounds. Just sounds sooooooooooooo good. Covers any tune I need it to. A little thicker when dialed towards the J pickup opposed to a JJ. P panned is killer, especially rock tunes with a pick or raggae/dub style. J neck is awesome, also
Rob
- Apr 3, 2003
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+1 That is one of the things that I like about my P/J 5. Sometimes, with a JJ-style bass, I feel like I want just a bit more fullness in the low mids. You certainly get that with the P/J. But for my bass, I wanted to add a bit more bite up top, so I opted for an ebony board. For my preferences, that ebony "ping" layered on top of a full, yet clear, P/J tone just really works.
To my ears, my Sadowsky P/J 5 just sounds like how I think "electric bass" should sound in a mix. I have never been too hung up on any given "classic" tone, so if it doesn't sound just like a J-bass, or a P-bass, I am cool with that. My P/J 5 nails the tone in my head, though.
Hey Thanks guys. I'm learning a lot.
Vic, your explanation was very helpful.
Now maybe one of you would like to do a trade for a month or something with one of my NYCs.
So I could try a Sad P/J and really make up my mind.
Vic, your explanation was very helpful.
Now maybe one of you would like to do a trade for a month or something with one of my NYCs.
So I could try a Sad P/J and really make up my mind.
You also have to consider where people are running the tone controls. With the preamp in there is a significant difference with zero bass added and 1/8 or 1/4 turn added. And it seasons the two pickups differently. I would have a hard time saying that there is a single Sadowsky PJ tone. It is very different from my Zon with Bart humbuckers. In that case there was essentially 3 tones - neck, mix, bridge. Adding treble or bass just...added treble and bass but the character of the tone didn't really change. That isn't the case with the Sadowsky.
I've always played Jazz basses and wasn't a fan of a P-J combo till I tried the Sadowskys PJ 5 and just picked up a Metro RVPJ-5.. To me it's due to the Nordstrand pickups which sound fantastic.. I always like having different tones or tools if you will in the toolbox.. For my main gig my Nordy VJ-5 fills the job perfectly.. I tried the Sadowsky for a set last week and it sounded great especially when we played "I feel the earth move", it just nailed that tone.. What I didn't like was popping on the G-string, it tended to thin out.. I talked to Roger about that and he explained it's where the coil placement on the PJ-5 pickups are.. On occasion I do some blues fill-ins and classic rock where I think the PJ-5 will be perfect and next weekend I have a fill-in with a band that does alot of Chicago, Steely Dan, Blood Sweat and Tears where I can't wait to try out the PJ-5..
+1 That is one of the things that I like about my P/J 5. Sometimes, with a JJ-style bass, I feel like I want just a bit more fullness in the low mids. You certainly get that with the P/J. But for my bass, I wanted to add a bit more bite up top, so I opted for an ebony board. For my preferences, that ebony "ping" layered on top of a full, yet clear, P/J tone just really works.
To my ears, my Sadowsky P/J 5 just sounds like how I think "electric bass" should sound in a mix. I have never been too hung up on any given "classic" tone, so if it doesn't sound just like a J-bass, or a P-bass, I am cool with that. My P/J 5 nails the tone in my head, though.
+1, I'm not the kind of guy that tries to match a perfect vintage tone. I just like the tones my PJ4 give me. I still prefer the J for slap.
It's more than that. I played Tom's NYC PJ5, and his has the previous non-Nord pickup set, and my HPJ5 has a combo of the Nord P and the previous J. IMHO, both basses sound totally amazing.
No need. Sadowsky has a very gracious 7 day approval period, which also means you don't have to lose your current bass, which is a BIG bonus. I'd really think you'd be better off doing an A/B compario for best reference. I'd just suggest you only exercise that approval if you're serious about purchasing... just to be fair to Sadowsky. Otherwise, if you're not yet ready to purchase even if you decide you did like it enough, just wait until you are in that position. Just like the old Doritos commercial... "they'll make more."
There's also of course other dealers for at least the Metros, but of course I'd have the same advice for you on those as well.
Last night was all about Sadowsky with me. Big wedding reception, long time friends/fans of the band, huge party with a full dance floor all night, up until 2am. For those who've played receptions (which are typically fairly subdued for live bands and tend to end early), they'll quickly recognize that's a big deal.
The rig was my Mesa M6 and an S2 UL410. I was bouncing back and forth between my newer ash/maple NYC JJ5 and my new ash/maple HPJ5. I literally could not get a bad sound. Both basses totally ruled all night. I love how strong the D and G strings are in particular on Sadowsky basses... I don't have to dig in a little harder on those strings as I do on some others. I also really dug the extra modern edge of the HPJ5, and when soloing the P, man it just sounds great for some of the more classic stuff like "some kinda' wonderful" and "my girl". When we did some KC, Commodores, and such, it was all about blended tones, even tho Brick House was recorded on a P (at least I'm pretty sure it was). Journey's Faithfully and Wild Cherry's Funky Music were all about a bridge favored tone with just a tad of bass boost (I agree with the post about a little going a long way). Aggressive edge for days, and a pretty much seismic B string. Wow.
Yeah, it was good.
The rig was my Mesa M6 and an S2 UL410. I was bouncing back and forth between my newer ash/maple NYC JJ5 and my new ash/maple HPJ5. I literally could not get a bad sound. Both basses totally ruled all night. I love how strong the D and G strings are in particular on Sadowsky basses... I don't have to dig in a little harder on those strings as I do on some others. I also really dug the extra modern edge of the HPJ5, and when soloing the P, man it just sounds great for some of the more classic stuff like "some kinda' wonderful" and "my girl". When we did some KC, Commodores, and such, it was all about blended tones, even tho Brick House was recorded on a P (at least I'm pretty sure it was). Journey's Faithfully and Wild Cherry's Funky Music were all about a bridge favored tone with just a tad of bass boost (I agree with the post about a little going a long way). Aggressive edge for days, and a pretty much seismic B string. Wow.
Yeah, it was good.
Last night was all about Sadowsky with me. Big wedding reception, long time friends/fans of the band, huge party with a full dance floor all night, up until 2am. For those who've played receptions (which are typically fairly subdued for live bands and tend to end early), they'll quickly recognize that's a big deal.
The rig was my Mesa M6 and an S2 UL410. I was bouncing back and forth between my newer ash/maple NYC JJ5 and my new ash/maple HPJ5. I literally could not get a bad sound. Both basses totally ruled all night. I love how strong the D and G strings are in particular on Sadowsky basses... I don't have to dig in a little harder on those strings as I do on some others. I also really dug the extra modern edge of the HPJ5, and when soloing the P, man it just sounds great for some of the more classic stuff like "some kinda' wonderful" and "my girl". When we did some KC, Commodores, and such, it was all about blended tones, even tho Brick House was recorded on a P (at least I'm pretty sure it was). Journey's Faithfully and Wild Cherry's Funky Music were all about a bridge favored tone with just a tad of bass boost (I agree with the post about a little going a long way). Aggressive edge for days, and a pretty much seismic B string. Wow.
Yeah, it was good.
Wait, people actually dance at weddings?????
j/k
One of the worst gigs we ever played was a wedding. The woman getting married was the daughter of a 'deacon' in the baptist church. She had talked him into live music, but no booze. No one, except the bride, wanted to dance. We got told to turn down 3 times, even after our drummer switched to brushes. The father clearly didn't want us there. Ultimately, we spent more time setting up and breaking down than we did playing. Hey, we got paid!!
Gotta love the bible belt.
Actually, you're not really kidding that much.
At least in this area, as much as I hate to say it, DJ's really make a lot more sense for wedding receptions. They can be softer than a band, their repertoire is infinite, they cost less, setup/breakdown is easier/faster (easier to plan around), etc. The problem is, it's typical in this area, even without the extreme example you give, for folks to only wanna' dance on the slow songs, and otherwise talk over the music. They really don't truly want music as a primary feature.
That's why we don't play too many receptions. We have to at least know something about the party... mainly, to make sure there will be one... if you get my drift...
This one was really special. The father of the bride knows us and likes us and has money to spend (which he very much did). So he had us, and a DJ, and a separate crew just for lighting... both for our stage area as well as the entire banquet room. It was really very cool. We tag-teamed with the DJ so he could cover the schmaltzy stuff and give folks a "break" from the extra activity of the live band (we tend to be a lot more "engaging" and louder... for example, I typically run out on the dance floor with my wireless and get a little nuts with the dancers at least a couple times a set).
Anyway, that's why I brought it up... 'cause it was atypical... in a VERY good way.
Also, I wanna' get some of the pics taken if I can... I'm SURE there's some shots there for the chicks at gigs thread. Man, there were some hotties there.
you can hear some poor samplers here:
Link Removed
By the way, the PJ on these recordings is not my NYC UV PJ4. It was another PJ that I regreted selling until I found the one I own now
My band is entering the studio very soon (it was supposed to be next week, but it seems like a problem in the studio is going to delay the recording a little bit). I'll post clips of the recordings (I'll use the PJ4 for most of the album, one song for the single coiled J and one for the upright.).
Fran, thank you for going through all the efforts on this. It was great to be able to do a quick A-B between the HC and the SC pickups. Excellent work there.
Fran, thank you for going through all the efforts on this. It was great to be able to do a quick A-B between the HC and the SC pickups. Excellent work there.
You're welcome
I need to do another session to really show all the tones that I get from my Sadowskys, the ones that I like and use the most.
Tangent: I thought I was going to miss my low B string, but the more I play my lovely RV4 the more I don't miss it. I don't think I over-used it when I had it, but not having it has made me change up the way I do somethings and that has been good. My little hands don't miss the wider 5 string neck, either.
That said, I still look at the For Sale section once in a while at the 5'ers that are listed. It'd be nice to have one just in case, but really, my RV4 is so perfect for me right now as much as I'd like another bass, this is doing all I need - especially through my new amp...Max 12 and 112 cab. So awesome.
That said, I still look at the For Sale section once in a while at the 5'ers that are listed. It'd be nice to have one just in case, but really, my RV4 is so perfect for me right now as much as I'd like another bass, this is doing all I need - especially through my new amp...Max 12 and 112 cab. So awesome.
funny,
but when i play other 5 string jazzes, (even ones w/ a 35" scale) i miss the fat, taut sounds of my v5.
just amazing how much more killer my 34" scale sadowsky low b sounds!
