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Combos vs Separates

zuma

zuma

Dec 21, 2006
2,562
1,898
East Los Angeles
zumaz.com
#1
I haven't played live for years now. Quite suddenly, I find myself subbing for a cover band. My Trace Elliot full stack is not going to these gigs. Heck, even just one of the cabs won't fit in my car. My Ashdown head needs serviced as well. I started looking at getting myself an easy-transport combo, like the Hartke Kickback 15. This is when I noticed that their stand-alone 15" cabs are actually more money than the comparable Kickback combo. They are both rated in the 500w range, though I did notice that the combo is 250w RMS and 500 peak, while the stand-alone cabs are 500w RMS. What other corners are being cut in such combos?

I guess I'm just on the fence between the convenience of the combo vs the flexibility of separates. For those that have gigged with it, is the Hartke KB15 Kickback reliable?

This upcoming gig is already covered. A good buddy lent me his Gallien Krueger Neo 2x12 combo. It fits in my trunk and sounds great!
 
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#4
zuma said:
I believe you that GK does so because their combos are much more expensive than the Hartke ones. I realize you get what you pay for, etc.. I'm just trying to strike that balance here and learn more since I'm so out of touch with the gigging scene.
Click to expand...

Markbass may have some and many here like Fender Rumble Series whom also uses their separates in some of their combo's

Fender Rumble 500 2x10 500W Bass Combo Amp | Guitar Center
 
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#6
buldog5151bass said:
Nothing wrong with a combo except, as you said, there is less flexibility. I like keeping a cab where I rehearse, so I only have to schlep my bass and head.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same. I could schlep my Trace rig to the rehearsal spot if I end up playing with these guys more. It's just sitting in my garage. I may as well use 'em somewhere. I don't mind if my head craps out at rehearsal. Once in a while I have to give my old Ashdown Klystron "The Fonz" move. Ayyyyyy! :cool::smug:
 
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#7
Self-diagnosed combo slut here, for many years. SWR (several), Eden (several), Mesa, Ashdown, Ampeg, Fender, Peavey, blah blah...

IF you go the combo route, get one rated at 8 ohms so that you can add an extension cabinet at a later date. Also, & this is personal taste/experience here, get one with multiple speakers that will still fit in your vehicle. The more speaker surface area, the better it will sound on its' own. Think 2x12 (which you have already experienced), or 4x10. The more watts/higher the headroom, the better.

For instance, I have a 2x10 Ashdown combo rated at 375 watts, & when I throw an extension cab under it, it increases the output of the head to 575 watts. Power isn't everything of course, but 575 watts pushing 6x10's is something to feel. It's quite a versatile rig.

Having said all that, my main gigging rig these days is a pre/power amp/cabinet. Demeter VTBP-201 into a QSC GX5 into a Darkglass 2x12. It's small, portable (with the help of a folding hand truck), & LOUD!!
 
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#9
I like combos for gigging because of the grab and go aspect, but also the ability to tilt back on stage. Some people with separate heads/cabs say that in order to hear better, they build up a tower with multiple cabs. To me that's wildly inefficient, as tilting a smaller unit back gets the sound up to your ears just fine.

As far as combos go, there are "professional quality" ones that marry full feature cabs and heads, and more budget friendly ones. It's really up to you which you like, but wish more companies did professionally featured combos. For instance, I wish Genzler had a universal bracket system for their amps/cabs, but as it stands you can only pair their smaller head with a couple different smaller cab options.
 
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#10
I have a Rumble 100, bought used about 6 years ago, taken it to many a gig and many more rehearsals. Not a single issue and it’s still kicking. So these “cheap” combos can be very useful. I don’t mind having the same size speaker for everything, and I find combo life very convenient. (I own 3 combos :) )

havent owned a KB amp but they sound good and many here seem to love them. Here’s a good recent thread, with some video clips, of the 12” version:
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/giving-combos-another-try-with-hartke-kickback-kb12.1442720/

The only drawback of that particular combo is no extension out. But if you have a bigger rig at home it may be a non issue. If you did want that feature, Rumble and Rocketbass are pretty good as well as affordable .
 
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#11
GC is everywhere. Go check out the Ampeg RB 210 and 115, also the Fender Rumbles. For medium gigs these work fine and are easy to load in and out. I sold my stack and am happy with my RB210. If I ever need to. I can stack the RB on top of a 15 and get way too loud.
 
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#15
I woefully regret selling my Markbass 2x10 combo. It had so many convenient features, some of which I am sure were not planned.

It had good power to hold its own for rehearsal and small places. I let a friend play thru it at a dive bar type setting when his band opened for mine and it was the first time I got to hear the combo in action. I was quite astounded how loud it was and I was actually quite tempted to tell him to turn down. For larger venues I would take a line out to the FOH for the heavy work and use the tilt back feature to use the combo as a stage monitor.

The back of the combo had two very deep ports which was handy for storing my instrument cable, power cable and XLR cable. I had the padded cover which helped keep everything from falling out, and the 44lb weight (which was considered light at the time) made it very easy to just bring my bass and the combo. Setup and tear down was very fast. If you're not turned off by the orange speakers you may be able to find one for a good price.
 
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#17
zuma said:
I haven't played live for years now. Quite suddenly, I find myself subbing for a cover band. My Trace Elliot full stack is not going to these gigs. Heck, even just one of the cabs won't fit in my car. My Ashdown head needs serviced as well. I started looking at getting myself an easy-transport combo, like the Hartke Kickback 15. This is when I noticed that their stand-alone 15" cabs are actually more money than the comparable Kickback combo. They are both rated in the 500w range, though I did notice that the combo is 250w RMS and 500 peak, while the stand-alone cabs are 500w RMS. What other corners are being cut in such combos?

I guess I'm just on the fence between the convenience of the combo vs the flexibility of separates. For those that have gigged with it, is the Hartke KB15 Kickback reliable?

This upcoming gig is already covered. A good buddy lent me his Gallien Krueger Neo 2x12 combo. It fits in my trunk and sounds great!
Click to expand...

I’m glad you asked this, I’ve had a similar question in my head. I’m deciding between an Ashdown studio 210 combo or an Ashdown studio mini rig with a head and 210 cab. For the Ashdown, the separates are pricier than the combo by a good $300… but if it’s more versatile down the road, is that money well spent?

I don’t have the particular Hartke you mentioned, but I do have their HD 75 combo. It does this weird thing where it doesn’t really get any louder after about three on the volume, it just gets more compressed. Maybe because it’s a toy amp and their limiter is trying to keep it from tearing itself apart, but I expected more. I dismissed thier hd500 2x10 for this reason.
 
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#18
I think combos are great for gigging. They're much lighter, more reliable and sound a lot better than they did 10 year ago.
The Hartke KB 15" looks good on paper, so I guess it's depends if you like the sound or not. You can't really go wrong with any of the combos from Fender, Ampeg, Markbas or GK either. It just comes down to taste.

As for head/cab vs. combo...it doesn't matter, just pick what is more convenient for your situation.
 
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#19
zuma said:
I haven't played live for years now. Quite suddenly, I find myself subbing for a cover band. My Trace Elliot full stack is not going to these gigs. Heck, even just one of the cabs won't fit in my car. My Ashdown head needs serviced as well. I started looking at getting myself an easy-transport combo, like the Hartke Kickback 15. This is when I noticed that their stand-alone 15" cabs are actually more money than the comparable Kickback combo. They are both rated in the 500w range, though I did notice that the combo is 250w RMS and 500 peak, while the stand-alone cabs are 500w RMS. What other corners are being cut in such combos?

I guess I'm just on the fence between the convenience of the combo vs the flexibility of separates. For those that have gigged with it, is the Hartke KB15 Kickback reliable?

This upcoming gig is already covered. A good buddy lent me his Gallien Krueger Neo 2x12 combo. It fits in my trunk and sounds great!
Click to expand...
I'm definitely on the side of separates, not combos, because its easy to upgrade amp or cabs with separates. With a combo, you can buy an extension speaker with a different configuration, but that combo is only going to have the internal speaker(s) it came with. Need a better amp? Go buy one but with very few exceptions, you can't remove the amp in the computer and put something else in there. You have to lug the other amp with you even if you use a different head because it is of course built-into the combo.

Personally now, after running all kinds of different things, I run my DNA-800 amp into my DNS-210 for ALL inside venues. The cab will handle 700-watts rms and since it is an 8Ω cab it only gets 400-watts instead of 800-watts rms from my amp. It is however an incredibly loud cab. I don't do that because it's the only cab I have; I do it because I don't need to bring out my DNS-410 (handles 1400 watts rms) indoors. If I'm in a really large indoor venue where the 210 is not enough, I can bridge my 800-watt Eden amp into it for the extra wattage, but generally the 400-watts into it will do the trick just fine.

I reserve that 410 for outdoors and music festivals. I will often run my Eden WT500/800 amp bridged at 800-watts into it for the festivals where there are really no walls to bounce off of. Even then I get told to turn down if I run the master up to 10:30. So 10:15 is max I'll run into it then and if feels good knowing I'll never have to lug around an 810.

Point is that I couldn't mix and match amps and cabs as needed if my DNS-210 were a combo. Get a really good 210 cab that sounds good, handles a lot of power, and is LOUD and then run an 800-watt class D head into it and you will be able to play the vast majority of indoor venues out there. DNA closed its doors in 2023 but you can still find some NOS (New Old Stock) items around and there are some used ones out there too. Other than that I'd say to take a close look at the Mesa Subway series - some great gear there.

By the way, I bought my DNS-410 in 2015. I bought my DNS-210 in 2019 specifically because owners of small venues about had apoplexy when I rolled in my 410 and would make me use some small 112 combo they had. Nobody looks twice at a bass player bringing in a 210...just get a good one!
 
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