Combos vs Separates

[InhumanResource]

I haven't played live for years now. Quite suddenly, I find myself subbing for a cover band. My Trace Elliot full stack is not going to these gigs. Heck, even just one of the cabs won't fit in my car. My Ashdown head needs serviced as well. I started looking at getting myself an easy-transport combo, like the Hartke Kickback 15. This is when I noticed that their stand-alone 15" cabs are actually more money than the comparable Kickback combo. They are both rated in the 500w range, though I did notice that the combo is 250w RMS and 500 peak, while the stand-alone cabs are 500w RMS. What other corners are being cut in such combos?

I guess I'm just on the fence between the convenience of the combo vs the flexibility of separates. For those that have gigged with it, is the Hartke KB15 Kickback reliable?

This upcoming gig is already covered. A good buddy lent me his Gallien Krueger Neo 2x12 combo. It fits in my trunk and sounds great!

I can’t find a single reason to go back to separated. When I need an amp, my GK 212 combo is perfect for the same reasons as yours. I’m not such a tone snob as to need a particular amp and cab for “my sound”, just dial in something good enough and do the job.

 

[brianrost]

 

[portpc]

I believe you that GK does so because their combos are much more expensive than the Hartke ones. I realize you get what you pay for, etc.. I'm just trying to strike that balance here and learn more since I'm so out of touch with the gigging scene.

I've done 100's of small-mid gigs with various HARTKE combos for close to 10 years without any issues. I believe they are the best value in budget combos.

 

[sokolasty]

Fender combos are cheaper than Fender head+cab, for whatever reason.

FR800c (with neo speakers!) is 850$
FR800HD+FR210 is 750+500=1250$

Is woodworking this expensive to justify 400$? Are neo speakers this cheaper?

 

[Thumpin6string]

I had a Hartke Kickback 112 and it was pretty heavy for a small combo. I've always found that combos are more of a pain to move around due to weight than separates. Even with the light weight gear, the combos will be heavier. I have a 1200 watt 6 pound head, a 32 pound 210 cab and a 28 pound 112 cab. I find it easier to move these 3 parts of my 66 pound stack than a combo that would weigh the same as my amp and cabs together. An added bonus is being able to use only 1 cab if needed.

 

[DBA23]

The weight and cost issue are different with different brands.
GK Fusion 210 $1849 38 pounds
GK Fusion 800 head with 210cab combo $2199 5.5 lb + 39 pounds=44.5 pounds
There has to be something accounting for the cabinet alone weighing more than the combo, but it this case the combo is $350 cheaper and 6.5 pounds lighter so it made sense to get the combo, add another cabinet if needed later on. I was able to get the combo new for about 15% off, so even better. I’m expecting a PJB BG-120 to arrive tomorrow for a very light and still expandable option.

 

[ardgedee]

I started looking at getting myself an easy-transport combo, like the Hartke Kickback 15. This is when I noticed that their stand-alone 15" cabs are actually more money than the comparable Kickback combo. They are both rated in the 500w range, though I did notice that the combo is 250w RMS and 500 peak, while the stand-alone cabs are 500w RMS. What other corners are being cut in such combos?

You're comparing the amplifier power in the combo with the power handling capability of the standalone cab. You don't know what the power handling capability of the speaker in the combo is, other than being greater than 250 Watts RMS.

 

[capnjagg]

This has mostly been my hang up in amp shopping lately (not that I’m even close to pulling the trigger anyways). For my use case, a combo with the option for an extension cab would be plenty, but when I get into the “what ifs” is where I start to overthink it, start researching heads and cabs within my budget (in case I play somewhere that has a fridge on the backline that I need to use for some reason), and then see the cost difference between separates and combos and come back around to the idea that a combo should be plenty fine and I’m (thankfully) not playing in a stupid loud noise rock band anymore. There’s a lot of great gear out there to where you could likely just close your eyes and press your finger to a screen and land on something good enough.

 

[J Wilson]

Back when heads and cabinets were heavy, a combo could be a lighter one-piece move.

For me today, heads weigh as much as a bag of King Arthur and most of us are out of the 215 or 810 business, so cabs are lighter and easier to move. Plus, if a separate head acts up, you can keep the cab and make other arrangements till you get yours back. With a combo, it all goes.

Having said that, in the back of my old school mind I still wonder what a revisited Super Redhead in Class D and Neo could be like (my ages old daydream of a bass equivalent to a Twin Reverb) or a single 12 combo with real horsepower on top of a matching extension 12 in Class D and Neo. Easily done in separates, but . . . . .

 

[bucephylus]

I have a shed full of everything from Sunn to Yorkville to Hartke to Fender plus some led sled power amps. There isn't much difference sound wise between a combo and separates. With a combo you just carry it in, plug it in and play. With separates there is a little more set up time.

+1 Set up AND Tear down time / effort is the primary advantage.

All of my current gigs have some element of logistical challenges with set up / tear down. Not going to part with my separates while I am gigging; but, I’m doing the majority of my gigs now with a GK Legacy combo. Nice to have a no compromise combo capability.

 

[brianrost]

+1 Set up AND Tear down time / effort is the primary advantage.

In the days before pedalboards and other paraphenalia and amps still had attached power cords, the time from loading in a combo amp to being ready to play was however long it took to plug the amp into the wall outlet and to get the bass and cord out of the gig bag and plug them in. Searching for the wall outlet was usually the longer delay...



Of course, with a head and cab it doesn’t take that much longer to hook up the speaker cable

 

[zuma]

I do admit it is incredibly fun to be bass-gear shopping after not having done for so long. I haven't exactly been under a rock, it's just that I've been more of a home studio rat in the last 20 years or so. I would begrudgingly haul my Trace rig when necessary, but now it's time for a change.

I've decided I'm getting a combo. Reasons:

• Never had one, looking forward to the convenience
• Fits in my trunk and I'm an old geezer now
• It will double nicely in the living room as a practice amp
• I'm getting my Ashdown head repaired as well, so I will still have that option should I magically get a gig that needs the power and pays me accordingly (yeah right!)
  
• PRICE! This is a bar band playing covers once a month, we're not trying to "make it" here. If separates sound 10% better for double the price, no one will care, including me.

As I stated earlier, the borrowed Gallien-Krueger MB212-II will do the job for the first gig. This is currently a $1300 amp and I don't wanna spend that much. Let's change things up here. For those that have played BOTH, I'd appreciate some feedback on Hartke KB15 Kickback 1x15" 500-watt vs (as some say, the official Talkbass amp) the Fender Rumble 500. The price difference is negligible. Let's just say they are half of the GK.

 

[retslock]

Combos are certainly convenient but I’m enjoying that I can use my head with different cabinets if I want to. It all comes down to the way you want to work. Both have there advantages and disadvantages.

 

[zuma]

The weight and cost issue are different with different brands.
GK Fusion 210 $1849 38 pounds
GK Fusion 800 head with 210cab combo $2199 5.5 lb + 39 pounds=44.5 pounds
There has to be something accounting for the cabinet alone weighing more than the combo, but it this case the combo is $350 cheaper and 6.5 pounds lighter so it made sense to get the combo, add another cabinet if needed later on. I was able to get the combo new for about 15% off, so even better. I’m expecting a PJB BG-120 to arrive tomorrow for a very light and still expandable option.

Let me know how the Phil Jones rig goes! I've always been fascinated with their approach.

 

[Derek Kay]

Sometimes less is more.
Less speakers means less inefficiency, less size, less weight.
A combo and an ext cab, for main gigs. is rather convenient.

I would chose a 12" combo and a 15" ext cab. The main problem is size and weight of the cab.

I used a Trace Elliot 15" wedge monitor with full porting. (1152)
The advantage was that the shape made it far easier to handle and carry than a square box. Ask any roadie.

It fitted the car, tight stages and limited storage.
It might be unconventional but hey that's outside the box.
It sounded great and saved a lot of backache.

 

[zuma]

Sometimes less is more.
Less speakers means less inefficiency, less size, less weight.
A combo and an ext cab, for main gigs. is rather convenient.

I would chose a 12" combo and a 15" ext cab. The main problem is size and weight of the cab.

I used a Trace Elliot 15" wedge monitor with full porting. (1152)
The advantage was that the shape made it far easier to handle and carry than a square box. Ask any roadie.

It fitted the car, tight stages and limited storage.
It might be unconventional but hey that's outside the box.
It sounded great and saved a lot of backache.

That 1152 looks sweet. You remember what it weighed?

 

[ryco]

Was a separate head and cab guy. Then about 15 years ago bought a GK 1001/210 combo here on TB for $400. Super enjoyed the convenience of everything in one package. Figgered as long as I'm roadying a cab, might as well have the head firmly placed in it. Got a 410 MBE extension cab figgering 700w into 2 10"s was crazy, so basically have a 610 rig if need be. A lot of times will run the extension cab over to the other side of the stage.
The 1001RB started having issues a couple of years ago so replaced it with a Fusion 800/210 combo. Thought about going separate head/cab, but what's the point? GK sounds best with GK speakers, so wouldn't use it with another brand cab, also already had the MBE which only weighs 35 lbs. The 1001RB combo weighed in at 80 lbs, new one is 35 lbs.

I still take my Sunn 200s and Concert heads out with the 215 Concert JBL cab once in awhile for fun.
Best of both worlds.

 

[Aussie Player]

I've had a KB15 in my stable for 4 years now and found it great for rehearsals and small/medium venues. Has DI out if you need that. Also sounds good with 5 string or 4 string active or passive basses.
Reliability hasn't been any issue. An easy carry too if that is important.

 

[zuma]

Was a separate head and cab guy. Then about 15 years ago bought a GK 1001/210 combo here on TB for $400. Super enjoyed the convenience of everything in one package. Figgered as long as I'm roadying a cab, might as well have the head firmly placed in it. Got a 410 MBE extension cab figgering 700w into 2 10"s was crazy, so basically have a 610 rig if need be. A lot of times will run the extension cab over to the other side of the stage.
The 1001RB started having issues a couple of years ago so replaced it with a Fusion 800/210 combo. Thought about going separate head/cab, but what's the point? GK sounds best with GK speakers, so wouldn't use it with another brand cab, also already had the MBE which only weighs 35 lbs. The 1001RB combo weighed in at 80 lbs, new one is 35 lbs.

I still take my Sunn 200s and Concert heads out with the 215 Concert JBL cab once in awhile for fun.
Best of both worlds.

I miss the folded 18" cab I used to use in high school. We used to call it the "Low B" cab.

 

[zuma]

I've had a KB15 in my stable for 4 years now and found it great for rehearsals and small/medium venues. Has DI out if you need that. Also sounds good with 5 string or 4 string active or passive basses.
Reliability hasn't been any issue. An easy carry too if that is important.

Right on! That's what I want to hear.