common old school myths and legends

[delta7fred]

interesting...

Thanks for taking the time to answer my stupid question, by the way.

It's not a stupid question at all but a very good one.

I was unaware that Geezer Butler used detuning until reading this thread. I have listened to a lot and played a bit of Sabbath's stuff over the years and it completely passed me by. (But so have a lot of things in life so nothing new there)

 

[makkE]

Great thread

What I have always wondered about is: Did roundwounds for bass come up so late simply because noone had thought of it before that, or are there other reasons (manufacturing machines got better/more precise, etc) ?

About tuners: I always thought people used pitchforks before the electric tuners?

 

[John Wentzien]

Great thread

What I have always wondered about is: Did roundwounds for bass come up so late simply because noone had thought of it before that, or are there other reasons (manufacturing machines got better/more precise, etc) ?

About tuners: I always thought people used pitchforks before the electric tuners?

We had "tuning" forks..

"pitch" forks were used for bailing hay back then...a little too big to fit in the bass-case!

We also had "pitch" pipes. and other kinds of pipes.

 

[ggunn]

Great thread

What I have always wondered about is: Did roundwounds for bass come up so late simply because noone had thought of it before that, or are there other reasons (manufacturing machines got better/more precise, etc) ?

Someone will correct me if I am incorrect, but I am pretty sure that round wound strings predated flats. There have been round wound strings for pianos for a very long time.

 

[JTE]

Because Leo Fender's vision of the electric bass was to emulate the double bass, he used flatwound strings. Give the Fender bass' overwhelming impact on the industry, just about every other bass maker shipped the basses with flats. It became the sound associated with the bass. I know Fender had some nickle rounds by 1969, but my experience is that no one used them. Now understand that many of the professional music industry guitarists also used flats (jazz players) so "professional" to many music store folks meant flats too.

It was only after Entwistle helped develop the RS-66 strings with Jame Howe, and when Yes released "Fragile" so Squire's sound became well known that many people started going for the piano bass sound. And even at that, I think it was really the popularity of slap/pop that made rounds popular. As the sound got more well known, other companies started developing and advertising rounds.

John

 

[BassyBill]

I came home from school one day to find my parents had burned my entire Kiss collection, albums, 8-tracks(remember 8 -tracks???), etc.

Wow. That is a pretty way out story. I'm glad you seem to have dealt sensibly with a silly thing like that.

 

[delta7fred]

Someone will correct me if I am incorrect, but I am pretty sure that round wound strings predated flats. There have been round wound strings for pianos for a very long time.

I have no idea which came first for bass. All I know is that I bought a Hofner Senator bass in about 1967 and it had flats on and they sounded dreadful. I put a set of Rotosound round wounds on and have never used flats again. Flats seem to get a good write up now but I like a bit of twang so cannot see me going back.

Tuning Forks and Pitch forks - I've used a pitch fork in my teens, but it was for throwing bales of straw about with. Not recommended as it is too hard work. I notice that the farmers of today rarely use them and for very good reason.

A tuning fork for tuning - yes we probably should have had one but we were teenagers and had occasional access to a piano so that was enough, just as long as we were in tune with each other.

 

[Batmensch]

Worst, most BS old school rumor I remember is the Rolling Stones were supposed to be the "World's Greatest Rock and Roll Band."
(ahem)

 

[Pillgrimm13]

when i was in grade school (in the 70s) my class had a record player u could listen to durring recess and i listened to kiss every day till my step father found out and had them take it out of the class because it was satanic and acording to him kiss stood for knights in satans service. later when i was in high school he brought a vhs tape home about the evils of heavy metal music and it opened a whole world of great bands to me ; P.

 

[tehbassist]

I also had an Ibanez acoustic six string. People would look at it and say "Never heard of those". There were no Ibanez dealers in the area at that time, I got it shipped from my Uncle who owned a music store in Great Falls, MT to Grand Island, Nebraska.

I find that ironic, because it sounds like you lived in GI when Ron's music stocked Fender and Gibson. Now all there is is Ibanez here...

You still local?

 

[mwhite89]

Hi,
These are not myths: At fifteen my first bass and amplifier were purchased from Sears (then Sears and Roebuck).
At sixteen we played night clubs along “The Strip” in Bossier City Louisiana and in east Texas; and could drink in the clubs between sets.
A “lib” or ounce of w##d was ten dollars.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Truths, not myths:

*We used whatever we could get our hands on and made the best of it.

*The coolest parents in town were the ones who allowed us to make an ungodly racket in the garage, basement, rumpus room, whatever. Spring ahead 36 years: we rehearse in a detached garage owned by...who else?...Tim's 80 year old mother.

Riis

 

[delta7fred]

Worst, most BS old school rumor I remember is the Rolling Stones were supposed to be the "World's Greatest Rock and Roll Band."
(ahem)

+1000, and I am a Stones fan. They went through a very bad patch where their live stuff was just awful. How they got away with it I don't know.

 

[Pilgrim]

We had "tuning" forks..

"pitch" forks were used for bailing hay back then...a little too big to fit in the bass-case!

We also had "pitch" pipes. and other kinds of pipes.

When I took up bass again in 1997 after a 23- year layoff, I didn't even know that electronic tuners existed. I still have my pitch pipe, and I find that it's quite easy to tune the G, then use the 5th fret to tune each string in sequence. It absolutely staggers me that some bass players don't know how to do this....it's the most basic bit of knowledge that a bass player needs. Given ANY of the open string notes to tune with, one should be able to tune the instrument in standard G-D-A-E tuning with no additional help.

The other surprise was that so many players don't read music. Most of my background was in orchestra and big band settings, where sheet music was critical. I find tab (the most common substitute) a greatly inferior substitute, with the additional failing that tab imposes someone else's idea of how to finger the notes. I use open strings more often than most people who tab, as I vastly prefer simple fingerings and I don't usually dislike the sound of open strings.

 

[NielsBass]

Worst, most BS old school rumor I remember is the Rolling Stones were supposed to be the "World's Greatest Rock and Roll Band."
(ahem)

I heard the same from U2

 

[delta7fred]

The other surprise was that so many players don't read music. Most of my background was in orchestra and big band settings, where sheet music was critical. I find tab (the most common substitute) a greatly inferior substitute, with the additional failing that tab imposes someone else's idea of how to finger the notes. I use open strings more often than most people who tab, as I vastly prefer simple fingerings and I don't usually dislike the sound of open strings.

I am self taught and have tried several times to learn to 'read' with little success. The thing is I don't play in an orchestra or big band and don't do sessions. I have never seen anything that I have ever wanted to play as a score so have never needed to read. If I needed to no doubt I would learn and pretty damn quick.

Tab is fine for finding the key and the general 'flavour' and getting you started but after that forget it. It is only as good as the person who tabbed it, usually some 14 year old kid in his bedroom (just my opinion). The easy stuff is usually correct but once it gets slightly difficult it can get very creative. As you correctly say it is in a position that the tabber feels comfortable with, probably not where you or I would play it.

For me the best thing is to work new songs out myself. Since I have been doing this since 1967 it posses very little problem. The more you do it the better and quicker you get.

As for open strings I am the complete opposite to you. I never learn a new song using open strings because 99% of the time our singer will want to shift the key up/down a fret or six. We will initially learn a song in the key on the CD then shift it until he is happy with it. Even then it is not unknown for him to shift it again after a month/year or two of gigging it. So open strings are a definite no no.

 

[Iridescentone]

Anyone remember when a Shure Vocalmaster was the hawt PA setup?

How about this myth...rub the back of your bass neck with an old hambone. I actually tried it....what a freakin mess.

 

[Pilgrim]

Tab is fine for finding the key and the general 'flavour' and getting you started but after that forget it. It is only as good as the person who tabbed it, usually some 14 year old kid in his bedroom (just my opinion). The easy stuff is usually correct but once it gets slightly difficult it can get very creative. As you correctly say it is in a position that the tabber feels comfortable with, probably not where you or I would play it.

Well put! it is a starting point at best.

As for open strings I am the complete opposite to you. I never learn a new song using open strings because 99% of the time our singer will want to shift the key up/down a fret or six. We will initially learn a song in the key on the CD then shift it until he is happy with it. Even then it is not unknown for him to shift it again after a month/year or two of gigging it. So open strings are a definite no no.

I get your point, and appreciate the difficulty this would cause. Fortunately I play primarily in a surf band with no vocals, so this isn't an issue for me. You have a logical reason for avoiding open strings - and that is quite often not the case.

 

[delta7fred]

I get your point, and appreciate the difficulty this would cause. Fortunately I play primarily in a surf band with no vocals, so this isn't an issue for me. You have a logical reason for avoiding open strings - and that is quite often not the case.

I quite envy you playing surf stuff, I love it, and don't blame you at all for using lots of open strings. I think we only play 2 instrumentals, even so I still don't play open strings in them, can't break the habit of a lifetime.

I was told when I first started learning 'don't play open strings or chords'. The chords bit was obvious because if you did with the old 60s speakers you soon needed a re-cone. The open strings took me a while longer to realise why but it stood me in good stead, hard work at first but worth it.

I've played in so many bands in the past where the only key to play something is what the original is in. The very mention of key change would strike fear into the hearts of certain band members I know. The poor singers used to go purple trying to hit some of the notes. Not so with my current band both the guitarist and I are proficient at changing keys.

 

[Iridescentone]

I was told when I first started learning 'don't play open strings or chords'.

So was I, but then I noticed my jazz heroes using opens to great effect on upright bass.

IICR, the great master of bass guitar himself, J Jamerson said "play the open strings". Could have been just a habit left over from his URB days, but I think it contributed something to his "bouncy" feel. Just sayin'.