Comparing Class D amps

[deff]

Thanks! I'm on the hunt for an Acoustic 370 head. I had a 150 that I had recently and it was amazing.

370's are great, we have one at our space owned by our drummer, but it is hardly anything transparent.

 

[msb]

You can usually find Fortes in the classified section.

 

[Parzival]

Pre-amp part of the heads is where you'll notice a difference.
Try some different stand-alone pre-amps into either the aux input or effects return of the Bugera.

Always see folks talk about running their board into the return on an amp. My amp doesn’t have a send/return. What are the advantages and disadvantages of doing this? Does it just bypass the preamp or do something different?

 

[agedhorse]

Always see folks talk about running their board into the return on an amp. My amp doesn’t have a send/return. What are the advantages and disadvantages of doing this? Does it just bypass the preamp or do something different?

Generally bypasses the preamp and the voicing. This is true for maybe 90% of amps with an effects loop.

 

[InkCow]

Always see folks talk about running their board into the return on an amp. My amp doesn’t have a send/return. What are the advantages and disadvantages of doing this? Does it just bypass the preamp or do something different?

Mine doesn’t either. It just means that you’ve got another preamp in your chain which will need to be accounted for with regards to eq, voicing, gain staging, and, depending on your amp, things like automatic compression/limiting kicking in, etc.
The impact will vary depending on the amp and the situation. If the amp’s preamp excessively scooped or boosted mids (for example) you may be fighting against your pedal board tone or boosting/cutting too much.

 

[Parzival]

Generally bypasses the preamp and the voicing. This is true for maybe 90% of amps with an effects loop.

Would the EQ of the amp still be available or would it simply be like running into a power amp.

Thanks

 

[InkCow]

Would the EQ of the amp still be available or would it simply be like running into a power amp.

Thanks

Usually the latter. It would be exceptional for an effects loop to be pre-eq, although I am sure examples exist.

 

[Parzival]

Mine doesn’t either. It just means that you’ve got another preamp in your chain which will need to be accounted for with regards to eq, voicing, gain staging, and, depending on your amp, things like automatic compression/limiting kicking in, etc.
The impact will vary depending on the amp and the situation. If the amp’s preamp excessively scooped or boosted mids (for example) you may be fighting against your pedal board tone or boosting/cutting too much.

As it is now with the board running straight into my D800, I get a great tone from my board and tweak the amp EQ to help with the room. I think gain staging is an issue for me.

 

[agedhorse]

Would the EQ of the amp still be available or would it simply be like running into a power amp.

Thanks

Generally not.

 

[InkCow]

As it is now with the board running straight into my D800, I get a great tone from my board and tweak the amp EQ to help with the room. I think gain staging is an issue for me.

The aux input, I think, might serve the same purpose.

 

[agedhorse]

The aux input, I think, might serve the same purpose.

It should on most amps.

 

[pbassnut]

Thanks! I'm on the hunt for an Acoustic 370 head. I had a 150 that I had recently and it was amazing.

I cut my teeth on Acoustic bass amplification ... I had an Acoustic 136 1 X 15 combo in my early days of playing as well as an Acoustic 370 head that I paired with a Sunn Concert Bass 2 X 15 cabinet loaded with a couple of JBL K-140 speakers. I used that rig my first few years of playing full-time. I picked up a used DiCosimo 360+ Bass Preamp pedal about a year ago that is the coolest thing since sliced bread, IMHO. The following video is by the guy who sold it to me (a fellow TalkBasser) who does a nice A/B comparison of it to an actual Acoustic 360 preamp section ...

 

[hasbeen]

So that would be an amp to avoid in this type of application.

Why's that?

 

[Pbman]

I bit the bullet, I found a Forte, not here for $800. Not a bad price and totally recoverable if I decide to sell it

Thanks everyone!

 

[groovepump]

Why's that?

The engineers say that amp has been voiced to NOT be transparent (the final amp stage).
So, if you use the effects loop "receive," going straight to the power amp, you will
have some colouring of the signal added to whatever you are feeding it with. That may
not necessarily be a bad thing. It's unknown. Might sound just fine. To me, it means
that you might have to EQ your "source" a bit differently to get the same tone that you
would if the amp was truly "transparent".

 

[Pbman]

370's are great, we have one at our space owned by our drummer, but it is hardly anything transparent.

True, but they kick butt!

 

[agedhorse]

The engineers say that amp has been voiced to NOT be transparent (the final amp stage).
So, if you use the effects loop "receive," going straight to the power amp, you will
have some colouring of the signal added to whatever you are feeding it with. That may
not necessarily be a bad thing. It's unknown. Might sound just fine. To me, it means
that you might have to EQ your "source" a bit differently to get the same tone that you
would if the amp was truly "transparent".

I think you misunderstood the comments.

it started with the question about using an external preamp in front of an amp, for this the voicing of an already heavily voiced amp is generally not a great option because of the likelihood that the voicings will conflict.

In the case of the Streamliner, the effects return input is pretty flat, the only processing in the path is the 3DPM circuit that manages the frequency dependent dynamics starting about 3dB before power amp clipping. The effects return is suitable for an alternate preamp input.

 

[groovepump]

I think you misunderstood the comments.

it started with the question about using an external preamp in front of an amp, for this the voicing of an already heavily voiced amp is generally not a great option because of the likelihood that the voicings will conflict.

In the case of the Streamliner, the effects return input is pretty flat, the only processing in the path is the 3DPM circuit that manages the frequency dependent dynamics starting about 3dB before power amp clipping. The effects return is suitable for an alternate preamp input.

Thanks for clarifying this. That's more in-line with my (limited) experience.

 

[msb]

I bit the bullet, I found a Forte, not here for $800. Not a bad price and totally recoverable if I decide to sell it

Thanks everyone!

The Forte is a nice simple amp. And it’s got some serious slam.

 

[hasbeen]

I think you misunderstood the comments.

it started with the question about using an external preamp in front of an amp, for this the voicing of an already heavily voiced amp is generally not a great option because of the likelihood that the voicings will conflict.

In the case of the Streamliner, the effects return input is pretty flat, the only processing in the path is the 3DPM circuit that manages the frequency dependent dynamics starting about 3dB before power amp clipping. The effects return is suitable for an alternate preamp input.

Si senor. It's almost like you know that amp a bit. ;-)